A couple of dyno runs are not going to show the longevity of the performance and durability of one Dp to another.
We have more into our Dp then most know, we have already made improvements that will insure the performance and longevity of our Dp over others.

 

Ordered my ZZP Catless today

 

I find it interesting you have chosen to attack another companies workmanship. Why don't you post a close-up of your down pipe? The entire down-pipe, not just parts of it.

For the record, we switched from ceramic core converters to metallic core converters over 6 years ago. Not because they cost less, because they actually cost more, but we switched for two reasons:
1. they flow better and allow the engine to produce more power.
2. They are stronger and much more resistant to physical shock/damage.

Interesting... But not accurate. You are trying to have people believe this is an "apples to apples" comparison of products. It is not. Your down-pipes are not similar but for the fact they replace the stock down-pipe using factory flanges.

You say the largest difference is the price? Not even close. You are advertising 100% 304 stainless, yet the ceramic core converter you offer is made of 409 stainless (high carbon steel content and will rust). The 304 stainless tubing you use does not show any production numbers or tubing manufacturer. It appears you are using Chinese made 304 stainless instead of "Rath Gibson" tubing which is made in America. We have tried Chinese 304 stainless ourselves and it is lower quality. It is slightly magnetic which reflects the high carbon steel content, it bends easier (also reflects the higher carbon steel content). It costs less but in my opinion the lack of quality wasn't worth the compromise. The flex coupler you use is longer and is being angle welded. This allows you to rely on the flex coupler to replace the first bend in the tube, instead of taking the time to duplicate the factory bends and rotation. Your "angled O2 bung" is not similar in any way to ours or Hahns. You are simply bending a piece of tubing and welding it on. With all of these differences, of course you can sell your down-pipes for less. Not to mention the $30.00 minimum profit you make on customers stock catalytic converters when they return them to you.

Customers are better off recycling the cat converters themselves. They can get $80.00 to $120.00 depending on the time of year.

So, for a limited time only, to show everyone our appreciation and our commitment to the absolute highest quality, we are happy to match ZZP pricing on stainless down-pipes.

But, for the same price you get the following:
100% 304 stainless tubing; Rath Gibson brand , made in America.
Mandrel bent tubing which duplicates the factory design perfectly, no short cuts using the flex coupler to replace a bend.
Correctly designed and fabricated O2 sensor chamber.
Superior flowing and constructed metallic core substrate converters using 100% 304 stainless, not ceramic core converters using inferior 409 stainless steel.
Heck, we'll even work with our customers to get them the best price for their used, stock converters.

Here's a link to a large picture of our stainless, catted Down-pipe with metallic core converter and dump option.
Feel free to click on the picture to enlarge. We are very proud of our work and have nothing to hide:
http://www.clearimageautomotive.com/...s/P1070045.JPG

 

Served

To those holding off or shopping around, this is an incredible deal.

I couldn't be happier with my downpipe from CIA. It's beautiful, substantial, flows great, and sounds amazing. The workmanship I've witnessed on their products is frankly unparalleled by anything else I've seen.

 

Served up a plate of BS.

Dan, you should find out the truth about your claims before posting them. We don't use Chinese tubing. We don't cheat the bend with an angled weld. We don't do a lot of things you are trying to state as fact. You might want to edit your post or retract your claims made purely by assumption.

The bottom line is that a lot of companies charge too much for these types of products. The community should be grateful that ZZP is willing to price things fairly, forcing our competitors to stop over-charging.

 

Served it back...

By the rules of serving, it's now "on".

 

Hey Dan! Can I trade in my catted DP for the catted cutout? Hoho! Or maybe I'll just go ahead and take the deal on the catless DP and have the two of them, the catted and catless on hand. It's gonna be hard to pass this up. Or maybe the catted, dump and sell my catted pipe. What's the price on the catted, dump as shown. PM me if you want.

 

Hmmm? Here's your picture from your website of your LNF down pipe:
https://www.zzperformance.com/products_img/1016_1.jpg

Sure looks like you are using "cheater bends" to me. Post a decent picture so everyone can take a good look. A picture like this:
http://www.clearimageautomotive.com/...Pics%20006.jpg
Clearly, you can see there are two distinct bends in our down-pipe.

As for American made or Chinese stainless; American made is clearly marked as can be seen here:
http://www.clearimageautomotive.com/...s/P1070045.JPG
It has a very distinct appearance, is bright and shiny, not dull as your stainless appears.
Almost every one of our down-pipes has the laser etched markings.

I don't feel the need to edit anything as you can very easily post pictures of your down-pipe with markings from an American tubing manufacturer. if you are using a different tubing manufacturer to save money, there is nothing wrong with that. I am simply pointing out the fact your comparison of YOUR down-pipe and OUR down-pipe are NOT similar. Specifically NOT similar enough to fairly compare prices.

The community should be greatfule to ZZP? For what? You are pricing things fairly but you are using less expensive coverters, less tubing, possibly tubing NOT made in the USA, less bends (equals less time to produce), a lower quality O2 connection and your giving customers $50.00 for a converter they can most likely get $100.00 for.

If you want to compare prices and products "fairly", then actually build your down-pipes the same way we, and Hahn, build ours. Until then, you are simply offering "Walmart prices for Walmart products". There's nothing wrong with Walmart, but don't pretend to be Macy's...

 

Love that quote....ZZP was around in the clubgp days when I was active there. I chose to not use them as a vendor...but funny quote

 

ROFL. This is awesome! I wish I waited for my DP now... Dang it.
I might buy a second one too lol. or get the one with a cutout and plate, and sell my catted one.

 

That sure looks like an actual bend to me.



Those sure look like American made tubes to me.

Also, not all of our tubing is marked the same as tubing that would typically be prepared for retail sale. We purchase in much higher quantity than most vendors. Our tubing is the same price as your Gibson tubing, yet you continue to make assumptions and post them here without any regard for the actual truth.

 

I have this pipe... yes there is a bend.... YES it's american made... and YES it fits and works perfectly!

The only issue I had was the 02 bung was a little far down the pipe which I contacted them about and they fixed!

By the way this is ZZP's.

 

:gets the popcorn:

this is exciting

 

[...waves the ZZP flag....]

Bought the catted one had it in two days, loved it, decided to go catless, had that one in two days also.

Not saying anything negative about any others, just pleased with ZZP. Peace out.

[/waves]

 

I'm kinda turning over getting another downpipe from CIA in catless form now if this offer is for real.

 

should have done it from the start!

 

I suggest you up-date your website with a better picture since the only picture you have of the entire down-pipe is the one I referenced above. The bend can not be distinguished.

As for the American made tubing, whatever those pictures are of, are made in America but I question the type of tubing. 304 stainless is clearly marked with the batch, mill and heat numbers, as well as the date it was manufactured.

As for tubing "being typically prepared for retail sale", tubing is made in 20 or 24 foot lengths. It is bundled in 500 foot quantities. The laser etched information is marked from end to end. Last I checked no retail store had 1000 pound items for carry out.
If your 304 stainless tubing "is the same price as Gibson tubing", and the same quality, why so reluctant to tell everyone the brand name?

As for "continue to make assumptions and post them here without any regard for the actual truth", back-up to page 3 where Zoomer started with the asumptions. Don't come into a thread and start making "assumptions", trying to shed doubt on other companies products and bashing the workmanhsip of other manufacturers, and then get all up-set when you get called on it. This thread was started by the members for other members to vote on what they considered to be the "best down pipe".

As for the truth, we have ALWAYS been 100% up-front with this community about our products; how they are made, what material they are made from, flow numbers, dyno numbers, installation, etc, etc. Someone is certainly trying to twist the truth in this thread, and it isn't us. Zoomer had tried to shed doubt about the way "other companies" build their down-pipes and got called on it. He has posted false information about aluminized tubing vs mild steel vs aluminum, when called on it, he back-tracked. Zoomer has made smart a$$ replies to members who were simply offering general info to other members; page 8 post #134. Zoomer failed to answer direct questions about your product from members in this thread, specifically Page 8, post # 136. Instead of answering the question about which converter you use, he re-directed attention to a picture of another companies down-pipe and started bashing the quality. Again, he was called out for his statements about the weld and coating and back-tracked.

You guys are very good at escaping direct questions and you are very good at "creative marketing". I only picked your down-pipes apart because you tried telling everyone our down pipes are similar except for the price. Simply NOT true.

Instead of trying to get people to believe all the other companies are inferior to ZZP, try telling everyone why ZZP is superior to all others. Offer proof which can be researched independently, post decent pictures instead of extreme close-ups which show nothing but words and welds or blurry pictures which hide details. Answer all questions from members, don't be-little members when they disagree with you, don't bash other companies workmanship. If you want to compare products, then make sure the products are identical.

 

Dan- we are not going to update our website because you can't tell there is a bend there. After I told you that there is, you posted another response saying that there isn't. That makes you a liar in this instance. Second, Zoom posted aluminum because he types fast. Everyone understood that he meant aluminized. Now you say that he backtracked? He simply said it was a brain glitch. You are attempting to deceive people by even bringing it up.

You complain that you can't see our welds good, so I post a closeup, but it's too close? Wow. You are something else. As far as our proof of our products being superior- our dyno numbers and track times speak for themselves. Last I checked, we are the fastest on the forums with every single Cobalt that we have raced.

 

K so wait...which is the best and how much is it? lol Too much bickering...

 

For the money ZZP's is hard to beat. I paid a ton more for my Hahn DP.

 

Thank you darling.

 

zzziiinnggggggg


And Matt.

you really think your the fastest cobalt on this website? really? thats a cocky statement.

 

They do have a11sec LNF...but I dont consider what they did simple bolt ons (internal engine work). I would never get rid of my factory brembos for LSJ calibers for a smaller rim just to run what I do not consider fun racing (1/4)...I perfer autox driving. There is more to a car then a dyno and straight line. If you wanted straight lines....I would say you purchased the wrong car honestly.

 

honestly.

This is a website. I know people here have HP numbers over 400. but you dont have to prove anything to people if you dont want to. thats the thing. and if you dont. people get rideculed for it. so whats the point.

im glad ZZp has a good car. bolt ons. ported head. and a tune.

400 HP. its easy to acheive. and they got numbers that they post to back it up.

but its not the fastest.

I dont see what the competition is either. are we all going to get together and take off from a line to see who gets to the end first?

just sayin

 

I'll be in the low 12s maybe high 11's ON MY OWN... NO SHOP,

my money... my blood and sweat...



gimmie about 8-12 months