BOOM! Intercooler split open
You're also running Injen CP, which has a short coupler. Also It's not just the amount of boost, but how it ramps up, and what you were doing. Like if you're cruising along in 5th and then jam it into 3rd without rev matching, and floor it, the engine is going to be rocking around a ton. That short coupler will transmit more movement to the IC. Look how long the stock ones are. The IC is meant to be isolated from engine movement. It's another reason why I think ZZP was smart about how they designed their charge pipes.
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From: Anna, TX
Something I find gets overlooked a lot with issues like these, is the amount of research and development that go into a car prior to it being sold to the general public. The general rule of thumb, is that it takes 10 years to go from concept/design to production. During the course of that time, and more directly in reference to this situation, there is extensive research and development on the components, such as the intercooler.
It seems to me to be a completely illogical move for an automanufacturer to not test an integral component such as the intercooler prior to release of it. It is safe to assume they took the intercooler, connected it to the system, and probably blasted a good 30-50psi through it continuously until it broke. Then revised the design until the fault tolerance level was within a level they could safely deploy and warranty for x amount of years. If they released it, and the product broke all the time on every person, well, a 400$ part X the amount of cars sold = more money than anyone would rightly want to pay.
Therefore it is safe to assume that when the intercooler breaks, logic dictates there is a very specific question to ask. Why did it break? Upon investigation, you would find that in almost every single case, there is an outside circumstance that is the direct result of the failure. If there is no outside circumstance, then the contracted company that is making the product (intercooler) gets called into question, and that is a nasty situation that ends companies. GM would take legal action on the subcontractor of the intercoolers etc.
So, that being said, when an intercooler breaks is it more likely its the result of extraneous circumstance/abuse? Or is it more likely that a company with everything to lose would risk it all by producing a product below its contracted specifications, hope that gm doesnt notice all the warranty claims, and pray that no action is taken against them? Mistakes do occur but it is not by any means the norm.
It seems to me to be a completely illogical move for an automanufacturer to not test an integral component such as the intercooler prior to release of it. It is safe to assume they took the intercooler, connected it to the system, and probably blasted a good 30-50psi through it continuously until it broke. Then revised the design until the fault tolerance level was within a level they could safely deploy and warranty for x amount of years. If they released it, and the product broke all the time on every person, well, a 400$ part X the amount of cars sold = more money than anyone would rightly want to pay.
Therefore it is safe to assume that when the intercooler breaks, logic dictates there is a very specific question to ask. Why did it break? Upon investigation, you would find that in almost every single case, there is an outside circumstance that is the direct result of the failure. If there is no outside circumstance, then the contracted company that is making the product (intercooler) gets called into question, and that is a nasty situation that ends companies. GM would take legal action on the subcontractor of the intercoolers etc.
So, that being said, when an intercooler breaks is it more likely its the result of extraneous circumstance/abuse? Or is it more likely that a company with everything to lose would risk it all by producing a product below its contracted specifications, hope that gm doesnt notice all the warranty claims, and pray that no action is taken against them? Mistakes do occur but it is not by any means the norm.
Do you think that the company that made our IC plastic parts tested them more then the company that made our Power Steering pumps? What about all the brake issues we have? How about the rattling sunroofs we all deal with? Hell yeah I think GM would have gone with the cheapest supplier of the IC plastic parts it could find in hopes that it would hold up enough to where the savings would outweigh the cost of a few warranty replacements.
I am curious to how many of these IC failures you have looked into? Do you see a high number of them with indications they were hit? If this is true, why are so many dealerships replacing them when they break? Are the dealerships not checking for damage before putting them through the warranty replacement process?
As someone else pointed out, if you use any aftermarket piping you can stress the end caps. There are also a host of other mods and *activities* that can bust the IC. Not saying a defect can't occur in rare cases, but I don't think it's a DESIGN FLAW. Again, as another poster indicated here, GM DEFINITELY tested this thing for reliability. Is an aftermarket IC more reliable? Sure, it can be..although there have been cases of welds cracking on the end tanks with some and they can bottom out as well. Personally, I'm happy with my stocker and I'm lowered on Pedders with a tune.
You're also running Injen CP, which has a short coupler. Also It's not just the amount of boost, but how it ramps up, and what you were doing. Like if you're cruising along in 5th and then jam it into 3rd without rev matching, and floor it, the engine is going to be rocking around a ton. That short coupler will transmit more movement to the IC. Look how long the stock ones are. The IC is meant to be isolated from engine movement. It's another reason why I think ZZP was smart about how they designed their charge pipes.
I'm gonna have to chime in here and side with the *you broke it crowd* on this one. I just don't see how 24lbs of boost alone could cause this. The hoses are compliant enough to expand as well. No way GM would have jeopardized the IC with the GM upgrade either.
As someone else pointed out, if you use any aftermarket piping you can stress the end caps. There are also a host of other mods and *activities* that can bust the IC. Not saying a defect can't occur in rare cases, but I don't think it's a DESIGN FLAW. Again, as another poster indicated here, GM DEFINITELY tested this thing for reliability. Is an aftermarket IC more reliable? Sure, it can be..although there have been cases of welds cracking on the end tanks with some and they can bottom out as well. Personally, I'm happy with my stocker and I'm lowered on Pedders with a tune.
As someone else pointed out, if you use any aftermarket piping you can stress the end caps. There are also a host of other mods and *activities* that can bust the IC. Not saying a defect can't occur in rare cases, but I don't think it's a DESIGN FLAW. Again, as another poster indicated here, GM DEFINITELY tested this thing for reliability. Is an aftermarket IC more reliable? Sure, it can be..although there have been cases of welds cracking on the end tanks with some and they can bottom out as well. Personally, I'm happy with my stocker and I'm lowered on Pedders with a tune.
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By your logic there would be almost no need for warranty work to ever be done on a car. Why is it so out of the realm of possibility that they used a cheap plastic part on part of the car that is subject to 23lbs of boost (GMS1). Yeah, the IC is in the worst part of the car when it comes to risk of being hit. But if there are no marks on the IC then obviously something else happened that is not the responsibility of the owner.
Do you think that the company that made our IC plastic parts tested them more then the company that made our Power Steering pumps? What about all the brake issues we have? How about the rattling sunroofs we all deal with? Hell yeah I think GM would have gone with the cheapest supplier of the IC plastic parts it could find in hopes that it would hold up enough to where the savings would outweigh the cost of a few warranty replacements.
I am curious to how many of these IC failures you have looked into? Do you see a high number of them with indications they were hit? If this is true, why are so many dealerships replacing them when they break? Are the dealerships not checking for damage before putting them through the warranty replacement process?
Do you think that the company that made our IC plastic parts tested them more then the company that made our Power Steering pumps? What about all the brake issues we have? How about the rattling sunroofs we all deal with? Hell yeah I think GM would have gone with the cheapest supplier of the IC plastic parts it could find in hopes that it would hold up enough to where the savings would outweigh the cost of a few warranty replacements.
I am curious to how many of these IC failures you have looked into? Do you see a high number of them with indications they were hit? If this is true, why are so many dealerships replacing them when they break? Are the dealerships not checking for damage before putting them through the warranty replacement process?
I can't speak as to why a dealership is replacing these under warranty or not, that is between the dealership, the mood they happen to be in that day, and their subjective interpretation of a scenario alongside the warranty advisers. Many times it is more cost effective to the dealership to slide it into a warranty claim then to truly investigate, and risk spending their time to find out its not a warranty claim and the owner wont pay. I am not in a position to speak on any of their behalfs at all or even make a comment about how they run their operation. Can you? If so by all means you go right ahead with that sort of arrogance.
These parts were not designed to fail randomly or without cause. Each and every premature failure, of any component of the car, has a reason for its premature failure and the typical reason for failure is not a design flaw. It is easy to get that interpretation when you read 99% of the people posting about it, blaming the ominous forces of the unseen causing their intercoolers to explode unfairly and unjustly, however I assure you that is by no means the majority, nor due to a fault in the engineering or design of the product.
Last edited by Grishbok; Dec 21, 2010 at 03:24 PM.
Even with a longer coupler, you are running way more hard pipe than stock. Look how long the stock IC rubber hoses are. Same with ZZP.
To answer other questions about the dealership covering it....They had my car actualy about a month and a half trying to find the problem. I think that by the time they found the problem they just wanted to get rid of me so they did not even want to enterrain the possibility that physical damage caused the failure.
But like I said, if my mods caused it then It should fail again right?
Well, I'll jinx myself, but I'm still on the stock IC, hard piped hot & cold side, short silicone couplers and pushing 24+ psi. 52k miles, 43k tuned. 
Never tweaked a curb tho.
OBTW, my IAT2's were 0*f yesterday.
Never tweaked a curb tho.OBTW, my IAT2's were 0*f yesterday.
But, my question is why does that cause the cold side to fail, the stress would be on the hot side because the cold side is still stock?
To answer other questions about the dealership covering it....They had my car actualy about a month and a half trying to find the problem. I think that by the time they found the problem they just wanted to get rid of me so they did not even want to enterrain the possibility that physical damage caused the failure.
But like I said, if my mods caused it then It should fail again right?
To answer other questions about the dealership covering it....They had my car actualy about a month and a half trying to find the problem. I think that by the time they found the problem they just wanted to get rid of me so they did not even want to enterrain the possibility that physical damage caused the failure.
But like I said, if my mods caused it then It should fail again right?
So I'll pose the question again. Has anyone had a stock IC break without impact (show a pic of the condensation bar), running on stock charge pipes, with the recall done, with stock or GMS1 had their stock IC break? Even if you include non-GM tunes, I'm betting 90% of the time, that it's going to be an impact, or charge pipe issue.
my intercooler as survived racing...although its incredibly dirty, starting to get corroded and has seen better days (rocks, bugs, pieces of tar and bits of tires from people in front of me)
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A little insight on the "where it would crack" thought - assuming the pressure is fairly constant on the whole of the IC, the cold side could possibly crack faster than the hot side just based on the temps - there is an inherent elasticity even to rigid plastics, which means the colder the more likely it is to crack.
I would suspect damage to the plastic did precipitate the crack, though.
And regarding the JB Weld repair, I have a few suggestions from some plastic repairs I've done in the past. If you didn't do it before you started, use some 70-80 grit sandpaper to roughen the surface before you epoxy, and try using a little fiberglass cloth in with the JB weld repair next time - spread the JB weld at least an inch beyond the crack on each side, and push the fiberglass in, applying a little more JB after you do. It'll reinforce the epoxy. Even though the JB is supposed to be as strong as steel, it fractures just like regular epoxy does, and generally right where the bond is supposed to be. 'glass will help stop that.
I would even consider using the regular fiberglass repair epoxy to do the repair, but I've never really took a look at what kind of plastic the IC is made of - I don't know if it'll work better. You could glass around the corners of the IC, essentially sleeving the break in a fiberglass cast, and giving you a much larger area for the epoxy to bite.
I would suspect damage to the plastic did precipitate the crack, though.
And regarding the JB Weld repair, I have a few suggestions from some plastic repairs I've done in the past. If you didn't do it before you started, use some 70-80 grit sandpaper to roughen the surface before you epoxy, and try using a little fiberglass cloth in with the JB weld repair next time - spread the JB weld at least an inch beyond the crack on each side, and push the fiberglass in, applying a little more JB after you do. It'll reinforce the epoxy. Even though the JB is supposed to be as strong as steel, it fractures just like regular epoxy does, and generally right where the bond is supposed to be. 'glass will help stop that.
I would even consider using the regular fiberglass repair epoxy to do the repair, but I've never really took a look at what kind of plastic the IC is made of - I don't know if it'll work better. You could glass around the corners of the IC, essentially sleeving the break in a fiberglass cast, and giving you a much larger area for the epoxy to bite.
For value though, the ZZP is extremely hard to beat.
below are a few pics we snapped doing Fabians car, we use the larger TR12 intercooler.
We aligned the bottom of the intercooler to be in the exact same place as the stocker, just so everyone knows.
The worm clamps below were just temporary to hold piping while fabrication.
We aligned the bottom of the intercooler to be in the exact same place as the stocker, just so everyone knows.
The worm clamps below were just temporary to hold piping while fabrication.
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From: Florida
Amen. I'm a little disappointed with all of the aftermarket options. ZZP hangs down lower than I was hoping for, and cast tanks weigh more. Hahn also hangs a little low, but I like their welded end tanks, prolly keeps the weight down. I REALLY don't like the MPx end tanks or the mounting method. Treadstone doesn't have any photos from the front of the car at lip level, and it is not compatible with stock or stock like piping. The end tanks on the treadstone aren't matched diameter with the piping, and the pic they sent me also had worm clamps. Their IC also goes behind the bumper at the top.
For value though, the ZZP is extremely hard to beat.
For value though, the ZZP is extremely hard to beat.
You sound like a GM service writer, try to find every little way to blame an issue on user error... I didn't say if you are running your own custom tune you wrote and you blow your motor, that GM should cover it.
People have been blowing their stock intercoolers and they have been getting them replaced under warranty. If they hit something and it's obvious that's what broke it, they would be voiding warranties on their intercoolers, but they aren't.
You are not trying to be an adult, you're trying to be a holier then thou. Like I said, I would bet that 99% of you that start with this pay to play crap in every ******* thread on this site, would be the first ones to go crying to GM when they deny a warranty claim of yours. It's ******* annoying, stfu with the you gotta pay to play crap. GM has defective parts that are defective from the factory that should be replaced whether you have an intake, or a tune, or a new downpipe. Not every issue that arises is because of a part you put on the car, and on the other hand, not every part you put on your car is safe. But to say that his tune, or hitting something is 100% the reason his IC blew is bullshit. He found it better for him to go aftermarket rather then try to warranty it, that's his decision and that's fine. But if I blow my IC, knowing I have never hit anything and I have mods, I am going to expect GM to warranty it because I am NOT doing anything to it that the GMS1 wouldn't do to it.
People have been blowing their stock intercoolers and they have been getting them replaced under warranty. If they hit something and it's obvious that's what broke it, they would be voiding warranties on their intercoolers, but they aren't.
You are not trying to be an adult, you're trying to be a holier then thou. Like I said, I would bet that 99% of you that start with this pay to play crap in every ******* thread on this site, would be the first ones to go crying to GM when they deny a warranty claim of yours. It's ******* annoying, stfu with the you gotta pay to play crap. GM has defective parts that are defective from the factory that should be replaced whether you have an intake, or a tune, or a new downpipe. Not every issue that arises is because of a part you put on the car, and on the other hand, not every part you put on your car is safe. But to say that his tune, or hitting something is 100% the reason his IC blew is bullshit. He found it better for him to go aftermarket rather then try to warranty it, that's his decision and that's fine. But if I blow my IC, knowing I have never hit anything and I have mods, I am going to expect GM to warranty it because I am NOT doing anything to it that the GMS1 wouldn't do to it.
If you can read .... I also stated there could always be a manufacturing defect ...... ******* read next time before starting this holier than thou bullshit . Whats ******* annoying is watch people bitch and moan about GM not covering a part that they broke on their own........ plus it's ******* annoying to see who have legitimate issues turned away because others have abused the warranty system . I'm not holier than thou ...... just annoyed with people who expect GM to cover their **** up's.
And when that service writer denies It even though its 100% stock Ill go to the Serv manager and if hes the same then onto the big GM upstairs! so on and so forth. I will win. By the way my godfather is a service manage so im pretty positive this wont happen to me. Ive had a whole damn mirror assembly replaced under warranty when some jackass hit it while backing up.
He was a service writer/tech or something. He used to post up all kinds of TSB's on here before he quit or got laid off or whatever.
He was a service writer/tech or something. He used to post up all kinds of TSB's on here before he quit or got laid off or whatever.
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From: Anna, TX
Well other then the fact that I put out an argument with facts in a coherent fashion, and you resorted to **** fuckity **** **** **** as your rebuttal, but yeah, I was just like you.... You mentioned defects as an afterthought not as a legitimate reason that the IC could have broke. Children here need to grow up...
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From: Anna, TX
I still don't undertand why this IC looks *different*...as I posted earlier there is a protrusion or *NUB* that sticks out between the end (where the hollow square boxes are) and the crack itself. In fact it appears to have broken off at the point:
Here's a pic of a stock IC and I don't see that protrusion?
Another two with no protrusion:
But you can see it on this one :
Why are these ICs different?
Here's a pic of a stock IC and I don't see that protrusion?
Another two with no protrusion:
But you can see it on this one :
Why are these ICs different?
Last edited by ronn; Dec 22, 2010 at 04:25 PM.
