Explaining why I don't NLS to my fiance got me thinking.

Back in the day when I was rolling around in my 1994 Integra LS I was part of a forum called teamintegra and I got a lot of good info there. There were a few extraordinary people that did a lot to their cars.

One user there cryo froze his automatic integra tranny gears then added a turbo. From what I understood, adding a turbo to an automatic honda was suicide for the gearbox.

Remembering another user on this forum stated, "we have glass transmission" then reading the tranny swap thread made me think.

Can we do this to strengthen our transmissions and is it even worth the trouble?

 

can you do it? yes
does it make it stronger? yes
is it worth it? it all depends on your pocket...

pulling the gears out of the tranny is not an easy thing to do... u need special tools.... a shop would normally charge you around $300-$500 to drop the tranny, another ~$100 to open it and taking the gears out, THEN you have to pay for the cryo treatment which is really not that expensive... and then the same amount to put it back together and slap it on the car again...

now is all that really worth it? IDK depends on your pocket... IMO its better to save some extra $ and BUILD the tranny instead of cryo...

 

I don't think anyone on here has done it yet.... You should do it and let us know how it turns out!! Haha

In all honesty though, I would contact the guys at ZZP and seek their opinion. They would be the ones with the most experience on this platform.

 

well to cryo treat an auto transmissions gear's it's usually as easily as a better valvebody and check *****/springs and the planetary gear set get's cryo'd to make it strong as well as better clutch pack's for the transmission it's self and an auto transmission is generally easier to work on in my experiance, The problem that any LSJ or LNF owner will face is finding a mechanic that can do a complete tear down a reassemble. Look for a saab shop and a guy who know's what he is doing..seeing as half the replaced blown transmissions i see are the entire unit even if just one gear failed cause nobody(gm or saturn) can get this transmission down pat... if you find something worth while post it up!

 

sub'd

 

cryo-treatment will make your parts 30-50% more durable.

so if you're working on your tranny parts, while you're at it, you might as well have them cryo-treated.


most of my engine parts,......and all of my drivetrain parts were cryo-treated by nitrofreeze.com

you can check out a good discussion on my build thread: https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/adva...23/index6.html

 

we dont have glass transmissions though
/thread

 

Are the actual speed gears in the F35 a weak link though? From what I've seen over the years I'd say no. Different treatment processes for different metals can sometimes have benefits. That could be cryogenic treatment, heat treatment, and other coating processes, shot peening, etc. For certain metals and certain applications they could also potentially reduce strength (i.e. making a pot metal more resistant to frictional wear but at the expense of becoming more brittle and prematurely failing under stress). For the gears in the F35 the cryogenic treatment would probably help reduce surface wear but that doesn't seem to be a significant issue as is.

Some front wheel drive transaxles just won't cope with additional power due to the case flexing, input/output shafts not up to strength, bearing design/size and so on. Many that will internally be able to stand up in modified applications as far as the internal gearset components go will have a weak link in stock open differentials. I'd say one of the biggest "problems" with the F35 is axle hop cracking/destroying the aluminum case. And that really isn't a weakness of the transaxle you can easily address but more in the setup of the powertrain mounting and suspension.

 

I'm pretty sure they commented on cryo treatment as snake oil or at least alluded to it in the past, to which I have to agree. Cryo treating a tempered and machined part imo is a waste and just promotes warping.

 

mongorat's is off right now being done

 

I just had mine done. No problems at all so far. I did my factory clutch and flywheel too

 

i know that the gears are not NLS friendly.... ive been thru 2 trannys in less than 5 months and both for the same reason... 3rd gear would just explode on me while NLS...

 

you were also running a pte 5857 that too much power to be NLS

 

Mines out getting done right now. I have a new spare which I took apart and sent out including the case.

 

You'd then have to figure out if the actual gear was the issue or if the root cause was something else. That could easily be something like one of the input or output shafts flexing and causing it to bind up, a bearing issue, etc. I'd be extremely surprised if the actual gear was the only thing to blame but it could be possible and cryo treatment might help somewhat if that were the case (depending on the speed gear's material), but if you're running a massive turbo and in the thickest part of the torque curve and try to no-lift shift I personally wouldn't expect the transaxle to hold up. If you want to drive the car like that maybe consider building a 4T65-HD slushbox and doing a conversion or if you really want to stick with a manual, take it a little easier by doing some of your own "torque management" and not hammering it so hard.

 

Those of you that said you're doing it now, how did it turn out?

 

Check out this thread with pics

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/driv...ml#post5567574

 

not nescessarily snake oil but it has limited application in this instance. The real advantage of inducing steel to cryo treatment is on the molecular level.

The molecular structure of the steel will condense and allign itself in a tighter pattern, alleviating stress on the molecular chains. This will increase its "strength". Another benefit and strength enhancing attribute is the formation of Martensite. Martensite forms when rapidly cooling Austenite which traps carbon in the crystaline structure and acts as a re-enforcing agent. Kinda like adding extra buttress' to a bridge.

 

Machine shops have been getting their tooling cyroed for years. Most of your high dollar racers get all their gear sets and trans parts treated. Super stock racers get their automatic trans parts cyroed. I was told by a super stock racer about getting it done. Instead of using Crane I used an Industry Jobber.

 

I can vouch for this... my transmission got "rebuilt" when a syncro went bad..... it GRENADED 3 days after the "rebuild".... they ordered me a new transmission

 

OP is no where near the limits of his transmission anyways. He is on a conservative box tune.