Well i have seen different intercoolers out.

Crazy Steve has one for 250 that fits out cars....
http://www.genuinesaab.com/catalog/p...roducts_id=648

This one catches my eye.

What do you guys think? If we get full bolt ons. Is an upgraded intercoolers needed or prefered?

I know Hahn and Dejon have one and i wanted to get some input on all of them!

 

I haven't seen Crazy Steve's talked about much on this forum (maybe because he ain't a sponsor?), but other forums seem to sing his praises. Think if you plan to upgrade to a big turbo, you might want something better. But, for a full bolt-on car, Steve's would be the just the ticket. His shop is within driving distance of me (Springfield, MO) and he's supposed to be working on charge pipes too. If I were to invest in a better IC, this is probably the one I'd probably get, especially if he makes cheap charge piping to match.

 

that looks too big(too tall) to fit in the stock location?

I just put my hahn on and it barely fits

 

Others that have installed it say it fits, just maybe need to bend a couple of brackets on the A/C condenser.

 

If you're pushing the limits of the K04 and spinning it way out of it's efficiency range it might be beneficial to upgrade the intercooler, but then again I haven't seen any testing of how well the stock unit performs and then compared to an aftermarket unit. The stock front mount has a nice amount of surface area and the tube-and-fin core should benefit overall flow. I don't see the K04 out-flowing the stock unit, but I can't say for certain. Before I'd cough up money on an upgraded one I'd measure the inlet and outlet temps and pressure drop across the stock unit and see how it looks.

Many people just buy them because they "think" it's better or needed but few people seem to test to see if that's the case. There's nothing wrong with buying one just to say you have one, but it might not perform any better and possibly worse.

 

Seems like to me maybe its too big? Might drop 1 or2 psi??? idk......... nice for the price though

 

bump for more input...thanks for the post

 

there is no camparison from my stocker to my hahn

the stocker looks SOOOO small and wimpy side by side to the hahn, plus the end tanks are pressed on plastic crap

I think an IC is a very worthwhile upgrade if you have a tune

stock, prob not

 

You can find these made in china intercoolers on ebay for less than 100 bucks, if you want a quality one for garrett/spearco you gotta pay up.

 

The ones we are talking about aren't ricer Chinese eBay units, they are made by Crazy Steve's shop in Springfield, MO.

 

Something that just came to mind:
Has anybody ever installed intercooler sprayers like on the turbo toys NSRT4s? Is there even any performance to be had with a setup like that? I can't imagine it'd be too hard to install if there was.. you could probably even use the windshield washer fluid reservoir as your fluid source lol..

 

When I get one ill be getting crazy steves ic. It fits just fine you just have to bend a couple AC brackets. I mean Steve with a bsr tune ic pipind and full exhaust ran a low 13 quarter. I don't think it drops any psi. But yeah that's my choice. I won't pay hahn 800

 

So can anyone vouch for their products? Since it is a shop i wonder if they are carrying a warrenty?

 

Crazy steve actually makes the cores himself in house and sells them for a mere $250... are you sure about that?
Most shops just buy the cores and weld on endtanks.

 

I am deffinatly gonna be picking this up... i wonder if there is any way that i can speak with someone about the product...250? i wanna see if we can get a Group buy!

 

Remember you get what you pay for, and its always true. There's a reason this intercooler is so cheap.

 

not this again, intercooler if made right are not a you get what u pay for, there are loads of DSM's and subarus that have proven that already, they run the CXracing intercooler up to 400+whp levels and they hold fine

 

Compare the pressure and temp drop of a cheap core to a quality core and you will see what im talking about, you get what you pay for. There was a nice write up on the srt4 forums comparing around 8 different cores, they had them on the dyno and recorded the pressure and temp drops. The cheap cores made the least horsepower, had the highest pressure drop and the lowest temp drop, facts are facts.

 

so since this one is 250 it isn't good quality? I don't think so.....

 

exactly, 250 is not cheap for a intercooler, 100shipped is cheap, but 250 is very reasonable, hahns cost is way the hell out there, yes they get props for hitting the market first, but once the competition comes in, its a fight for the customers money, whoever can get a good product for cheaper will win

 

If I tested the stock intercooler as not cooling or flowing adequately for my needs I'd go with an upgraded intercooler or even a water/alky injection setup before trying the intercooler sprayers. If you want to make a setup on the dirt cheap and plumb some inexpensive nozzles in and use your windshield washer pump, you could, it may sort-of work, but not the best option.

There's a few things to keep in mind about the "Turbo Toys" version of the Mopar Performance SRT-4 Stage 2/3 kits. If you tried to replicate the hardware it would not be cheap. Mopar used some nice Aquamist nozzles, filter, and fittings in their kit as well as a secondary water pump. Unfortunately if you aren't extremely careful in putting it together, it will leak like a sieve. The "toys" kits also used a different PCM (powertrain controller) than the non-toys kits that utilized custom programming to take advantage of an integral automatic transmission controller (which wouldn't be needed on the manual-only SRT-4) to automatically control the intercooler sprayer. If you built your own system you'd have to manually control the sprayers or possibly try to set up a thermistor (temp sensor) and relay setup to turn on a pump.

On the Neon, even when everything goes right it helps only a little at preventing extreme heat soak and doesn't cool the charge temsp as much as you'd think. It's also illegal at many track events due to dripping fluid on the track surface. Combine that with the cost to do a system right on a car like the Cobalt and you'd probably be better server with a larger intercooler. That wasn't an option on the Neon due to the front bumper support/cross-member limiting the intercooler size. Mopar did the sprayer since on Stage 2 with the stock turbo they were spinning it pretty high and creating a lot of heat and high intake charge temps where the sprayers could help the car run a little more consistent.


That intercooler "test" was a good idea but wasn't executed using a controlled, scientific method of testing. There were a lot of variables that affected the results and you can't make exact conclusions about the intercoolers from it. With that in mind, it did show that depending on the car it was going on, even some inexpensive intercoolers could perform reasonably well. It depends a lot on the setup and the specific car. I've done quite a bit of my own testing over the years and there's a lot of things I'd look at when selecting an intercooler. The core is important but so is construction, end tank design, fitment, shipping, service/warranty, etc.

 

That's a good question. I don't know the exact answer. I'll try to get in touch with Steve and find out more info. I'll also check to see if he still plans on making charge piping.

To tide us over, I found some quotes from Steve. Looks like he did put some thought into designing his IC. Sounds like from his tests, you can expect a 2-5 degree drop in temps and a little better spool up. He also says the stock IC flows surprisely well for stock.

If I were to do a big turbo swap or going for max performance possible, then I'd probably bite the bullet go with the best IC possible (like the Hahn or similar). But with a bolt-on car with possibly a wheel upgrade, why break the bank when you can get a better than stock IC at a lot cheaper price.

 

Stock intercooler flows around 400 CFM. Stock K04 can flow about 425 CFM max so it does not really outflow the stock intercooler by enough to warrent replacing it. However the aftermarket bar and plate intercoolers seem to help keep the intake charge cooler for much longer than the stocker. So you can do a long pull without losing power.

 

Whatever, its your money. If you want a cheap made in china intercooler than go right ahead, might i suggest the $250 turbos from ebay also. i believe they're glued together...
This is one of the reasons everything is being outsourced, you dont want to pay for quality parts so you buy the cheap crap from china.

 

get what you pay for................