ok so after my dyno we discovered my tial bov isnt opening, went back today and changed out the spring to a 9lbs, the bov was locked up, ok got it free, and now it was working, car is now surging and the BOV is working at the same time, i put a cap on the solenoid where the line would go to the bov and use a tee fitting and connected it straight to the intake manifold vacuum line, the bov is working but also surging at the same time? i called vince at TF and he could really only come up with the bov isnt sufficient enough for the air flow, the car runs the same and no engine light i drove over 100 miles with it like that today, please shed some light on my problem

 

When I had my DSM I had a Tial on it for all of 30min. It would open but flutter horribly. I have never used them again. So far my favorite BOV has been the Synapse Syncronich and the 1G no leak mod.

I have heard that our engine does not make a lot of vacuum at idle even though it may show
-20 on the gauge. I have a 07 Saturn Sky and before this I had a 08 cobalt ss/tc. GM even installed a vacuum pump on the SKY / Solstice to assist with the brake booster. This may be an issue as I believe the Tial being a spring type BOV may not be getting enough vacuum strength to open properly before the spring rate overcomes the vacuum signal. You may try to double up the vacuum signal or hook it up to your vacuum solenoid.

Thats about all I can offer you besides going with an HKS. So far I think that is the most popular BOV for our engines. at our boost levels it becomes hard for some BOVs to keep up.

 

thats why bovs are a no no, all it does is go pshhhhhh and cause problems lol

 

Did you grease it? Aftermarket BOV are not maintenance free. Stock ones are. Use synthetic grease only!

 

so in other words your saying the tial and our car dont get along and to go with an hks, at idle the bov is open a tad bit so there has to be vacuum

what i dont get it the bov is working now that i put a 9lb spring in it, but im still getting surge, things making like 2 kinds of noises

 

Pics of the setup? You probably dont have it hooked up right

 

not to sound like a idiot but i never figured out how to upload pics i did take them tho ha

 

 

I had the line that you capped off going to the bov when I had it

 

i tryed both, it seemed like there was no vacuum when it was on that one, and wasnt working

 

more input would be wonderful

 

Well you're supposed to use it.

I had a HKS but it should still hook up exactly the same way. Maybe the tial is messed up?

See the line?

 

Looks just like mine did when I had the Synapse Synchronic on the balt. BTW no tune and NO codes

 

thats how i had it, you think the hks would work with my tial flange? or are they all the same

 

They are not the same. I don't think they make a converter but I could be wrong

Edit: have you seen the Tial Q? There are two flavors Recirculated and VTA. according to Tial the Q vents 60% mover air than the old style BOV.


According to Tial they go off of engine Vacuum and not boost pressure for determining what springs to use.

PSI = pounds per square inch as in a spring rate .(not to be confused with boost pressure)
-22 and -23 in/HG = Pink -12 Psi
-18 and -21 in /HG = Un-painted -11Psi
-14 and -17 in/HG = White -9 Psi
-10 and -13 in/HG Black -7 Psi

You need to measure the vacuum coming from the line you have going to the Tial at a WARM idle.
You can use a vacuum gauge for this. Also be sure you are using the proper vacuum hose it needs to be the same ID size
as the nipple on the Tial BOV.

Hope you find this information helpful

 

dammit, this is a shot in the dark but do you think the bov itself could be faulty? i mean i really dont see why it shouldnt work the car runs great and pulls like a mother, i swapped out the spring even today

 

Please read my post above yours I edited it with some information for you.

All information leads to the Tial BOV being a PITA to tune correctly.

 

so my vacuum should be 12psi? kind of confused

 

Ok step by step for you (not being mean trying to clarify)

1. Check the vacuum line going to the BOV
A. Is the inner diameter equal to the inside diameter of the nipple on the BOV?
If yes proceed to step 2
B. Replace the hose with the correct size hose as stated above

2. Get a Vacuum gauge and read the vacuum from the hose going to the BOV at a warm idle
(Warm idle means having driven around and allowed the coolant to get to 190ish)
A. Record the vacuum reading.

3. Cross check the reading you got from step 2 to the list below EDIT Vacuum is the number on the left of the = sign
VACUUM(not boost) SPRING RATE (not boost or vacuum)
-22 and -23 in/HG = Pink -12 Psi
-18 and -21 in /HG = Un-painted -11Psi
-14 and -17 in/HG = White -9 Psi
-10 and -13 in/HG Black -7 Psi

4. Install the proper spring that relates to your vacuum (Not Boost)
A. Drive around and check the BOV operation
If this has fixed the problem congratulations
B. Does it still sound like it is fluttering or not opening?

5. Tials sometimes will "Flutter" it is still opening and sounds strange. Can mean its not letting enough air out.

Tial Working
YouTube - Tial 50mm BOV in action

Great Video comparing Fluttering VS working
YouTube - What is Flutterdump?

 

ok i have tial q with 8psi spring and mine has no surge what so ever. first you need to get rid of the tee going to the stock bpv piece. ive had hks and it surges no matter what any one says and its no bov flutter like they say got rid of that and got a synapse bov, great bov but i sold that setup and went to the tial q and 8 psi spring and it works wonders. i dont no why your have problems but make sure you use good vac line. mine is 5.7mm 50 psi fuel line. my old cheap vac line used to collapse when it got warm from the engine.

 

Excellent point about using fuel hose. Then only issue with fuel hose is that it is semi hard on the inside and needs to have more pressure on it than a standard vacuum clip can provide. I have used it before but always with a worm clamp.

EDIT: Please note I changed my step by step look for the EDIT

I found this on ZZP's site about the Tial BOV.

They recommend the 11PSI (Un-Painted) spring for the LNF.
Cobalt & Ion ---> ZZ Performance

 

yea they recomended the unpainted but i had like 2 sec delay of opening when off the gas. which i had 2 seconds of surge then the bov opened. so i found out the 8 psi was the best one for my car. every car is different but i would not suggest leaving a little bit of surge it will eventually mess the turbo up.

 

If the pics are on your computer go to photobucket and they will upload them for you. Put them in a folder on your desktop so you can find them easy. Each pic will have a link under it which you copy and paste and presto alakazam !! Theres your pic

 

the hose running to the bov is the original im swapping it 2day and vacuum testing it so well go from there, what should it be 11?

 

The vacuum reading at the end of the hose will vary. It should be somewhere between 16 to 21 psi of vacuum.

Remember when you take the reading it needs to be on a warm motor. so drive it around for 10-15min before taking the reading. And take the reading with the gauge at the BOV not straight from the manifold.

Also if you have a buddy that can help you can try to give it a little throttle under idle and try to see what the vacuum reading is after a blow off would occur.

chudson91 Posted that he has not problems with the 8# spring but he also has the Tial Q. Which is their new valve and flows 60% more air and has a faster response time.

IMO after you have done these procedures and have the correct spring in place for the vacuum that your car is producing and you still have problems. Ditch the BOV. Unless you are running an aftermarket turbo on this engine all you are doing is a noise mod. If you must have a BOV then you should sell your current Tial and get a Q