Idle issue after rebuild
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From: Iowa
Well we looked at that. There's 14 between the colored links if you count on the side of the chain. That can't be changed - that's just how the marks on the chain are. But if you count the links from the top of the chain there is 15. Between the tooth of one cam gear with the mark to the other cam gear tooth with the timing mark. If you get what I'm saying.
Basically though, it's set to how it was when he took it apart. I'm confident the timing is set.
Basically though, it's set to how it was when he took it apart. I'm confident the timing is set.
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
Well we looked at that. There's 14 between the colored links if you count on the side of the chain. That can't be changed - that's just how the marks on the chain are. But if you count the links from the top of the chain there is 15. Between the tooth of one cam gear with the mark to the other cam gear tooth with the timing mark. If you get what I'm saying.
Basically though, it's set to how it was when he took it apart. I'm confident the timing is set.
Basically though, it's set to how it was when he took it apart. I'm confident the timing is set.
This motor is at TDC and the tensioner is active. Notice how when you count the links from each end of the top chain guide, you get the same number of links to each cam timing mark. You want to make sure you are rotating the motor clockwise to approach tdc so that there is no slack in the chain on the front side of the motor.
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From: South Charleston, WV
To be honest, it would be easier if you just dropped the passenger side of the subframe, completely removed the motor mount and belt tensioner, then pulled the timing cover if you don't understand what matt is saying. You can then line up each colored link with the corresponding timing mark (blue link on intake cam). Its very possible you bent the valves though and if so, that engine will never start/run correctly like that.
Last edited by FasterIsBetter; Apr 30, 2012 at 10:50 AM.
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
To be honest, it would be easier if you just dropped the passenger side of the subframe, completely removed the motor mount and belt tensioner, then pulled the timing cover if you don't understand what matt is saying. You can then line up each colored link with the corresponding timing mark (blue link on intake cam). Its very possible you bent the valves though and if so, that engine will never start/run correctly like that.
Ok we checked the timing. It's hard to say if it was off or not because the marks all moved of course and we didn't to spin it 100 times to line them up.
We took the front cover off, set to TDC, lined everything up, double checked. Put it together and it STILL wasn't right.
So... he had made chicken scratches before he ever took it apart in the first place a long time ago. So we set it to TDC, lined up the marks. Then rotated it just slightly to see his chicken scratches. Lined up his chicken scratches. Put it together and STILL didn't work right.
This time we are getting P0017 (exhaust cam angle) but not intake. We are VERY VERY confident that everything is timed correctly.
So now we are suspecting the solenoid. He found a TSB on them for 09's with the same symptoms. Mine is an 08, but still could very well be the problem. Plus there is a small amount of oil that seems to be seeping from the exhaust cam solenoid.
Does anyone have any info on testing these? Or how much they cost? I haven't yet had time to do some research but will soon.
We took the front cover off, set to TDC, lined everything up, double checked. Put it together and it STILL wasn't right.
So... he had made chicken scratches before he ever took it apart in the first place a long time ago. So we set it to TDC, lined up the marks. Then rotated it just slightly to see his chicken scratches. Lined up his chicken scratches. Put it together and STILL didn't work right.
This time we are getting P0017 (exhaust cam angle) but not intake. We are VERY VERY confident that everything is timed correctly.
So now we are suspecting the solenoid. He found a TSB on them for 09's with the same symptoms. Mine is an 08, but still could very well be the problem. Plus there is a small amount of oil that seems to be seeping from the exhaust cam solenoid.
Does anyone have any info on testing these? Or how much they cost? I haven't yet had time to do some research but will soon.
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From: South Charleston, WV
They did pull the front cover again.
It's frustrating to even read posts like this. It starts with, "Ok we checked the timing. It's hard to say if it was off or not..." even though there were codes set for both cam positions. Later it says, "we are getting P0017 (exhaust cam angle) but not intake. We are VERY VERY confident that everything is timed correctly." I wish people would use more reason and common sense and less certainty that they did everything right. It's not like they thought they were doing it wrong when they put it together the first time.
It's frustrating to even read posts like this. It starts with, "Ok we checked the timing. It's hard to say if it was off or not..." even though there were codes set for both cam positions. Later it says, "we are getting P0017 (exhaust cam angle) but not intake. We are VERY VERY confident that everything is timed correctly." I wish people would use more reason and common sense and less certainty that they did everything right. It's not like they thought they were doing it wrong when they put it together the first time.
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From: A.B.E. PA & Jacksonville FL
They did pull the front cover again.
It's frustrating to even read posts like this. It starts with, "Ok we checked the timing. It's hard to say if it was off or not..." even though there were codes set for both cam positions. Later it says, "we are getting P0017 (exhaust cam angle) but not intake. We are VERY VERY confident that everything is timed correctly." I wish people would use more reason and common sense and less certainty that they did everything right. It's not like they thought they were doing it wrong when they put it together the first time.
It's frustrating to even read posts like this. It starts with, "Ok we checked the timing. It's hard to say if it was off or not..." even though there were codes set for both cam positions. Later it says, "we are getting P0017 (exhaust cam angle) but not intake. We are VERY VERY confident that everything is timed correctly." I wish people would use more reason and common sense and less certainty that they did everything right. It's not like they thought they were doing it wrong when they put it together the first time.
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From: South Charleston, WV
problem here is - they should have removed the timing cover off FIRST before they do any head or valvetrain work to set or mark TDC.. then realign the chain after any head/valve work.. i found removing the cover first saves me the headache later.. because then I can set TDC and perform work on the head or valvetrain..
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From: Iowa
Well it's easy for you all to sit there and criticize isn't it?
We DO have the build book. We DID take the front cover off AND the engine mount. We took that stuff off. Lined up TDC. Lined up the mark on the crank, then the intake, then the exhaust.
We counted 15 links between and 5 links to either side from the chain guide. Slack of the chain WAS in the back, not the front. We ONLY turned it clockwise.
We did that TWICE, AND lined up the marks HE made. Which can't be screwed up either because the distance between the cams is different than the distance from a cam to crank so the marks only line up one way.
If you look up cam actuators or cam solenoids on this site alone you find tons of them that went bad. But that's just impossible on my car isn't it?
Does ANYONE understand? Jeez. Except Ampzor350
EDIT: If it helps you. It only IDLES rough. It runs smooth as butter while driving. Which is also the symptoms people describe when their cam solenoids go bad.
We DO have the build book. We DID take the front cover off AND the engine mount. We took that stuff off. Lined up TDC. Lined up the mark on the crank, then the intake, then the exhaust.
We counted 15 links between and 5 links to either side from the chain guide. Slack of the chain WAS in the back, not the front. We ONLY turned it clockwise.
We did that TWICE, AND lined up the marks HE made. Which can't be screwed up either because the distance between the cams is different than the distance from a cam to crank so the marks only line up one way.
If you look up cam actuators or cam solenoids on this site alone you find tons of them that went bad. But that's just impossible on my car isn't it?
Does ANYONE understand? Jeez. Except Ampzor350
EDIT: If it helps you. It only IDLES rough. It runs smooth as butter while driving. Which is also the symptoms people describe when their cam solenoids go bad.
Last edited by Zander916; Apr 30, 2012 at 01:54 PM.
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From: South Charleston, WV
Well it's easy for you all to sit there and criticize isn't it?
We DO have the build book. We DID take the front cover off AND the engine mount. We took that stuff off. Lined up TDC. Lined up the mark on the crank, then the intake, then the exhaust.
We counted 15 links between and 5 links to either side from the chain guide. Slack of the chain WAS in the back, not the front. We ONLY turned it clockwise.
We did that TWICE, AND lined up the marks HE made. Which can't be screwed up either because the distance between the cams is different than the distance from a cam to crank so the marks only line up one way.
If you look up cam actuators or cam solenoids on this site alone you find tons of them that went bad. But that's just impossible on my car isn't it?
Does ANYONE understand? Jeez. Except Ampzor350
EDIT: If it helps you. It only IDLES rough. It runs smooth as butter while driving. Which is also the symptoms people describe when their cam solenoids go bad.
We DO have the build book. We DID take the front cover off AND the engine mount. We took that stuff off. Lined up TDC. Lined up the mark on the crank, then the intake, then the exhaust.
We counted 15 links between and 5 links to either side from the chain guide. Slack of the chain WAS in the back, not the front. We ONLY turned it clockwise.
We did that TWICE, AND lined up the marks HE made. Which can't be screwed up either because the distance between the cams is different than the distance from a cam to crank so the marks only line up one way.
If you look up cam actuators or cam solenoids on this site alone you find tons of them that went bad. But that's just impossible on my car isn't it?
Does ANYONE understand? Jeez. Except Ampzor350
EDIT: If it helps you. It only IDLES rough. It runs smooth as butter while driving. Which is also the symptoms people describe when their cam solenoids go bad.
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Joined: 06-03-08
Posts: 4,169
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
Well it's easy for you all to sit there and criticize isn't it?
We DO have the build book. We DID take the front cover off AND the engine mount. We took that stuff off. Lined up TDC. Lined up the mark on the crank, then the intake, then the exhaust.
We counted 15 links between and 5 links to either side from the chain guide. Slack of the chain WAS in the back, not the front. We ONLY turned it clockwise.
We did that TWICE, AND lined up the marks HE made. Which can't be screwed up either because the distance between the cams is different than the distance from a cam to crank so the marks only line up one way.
If you look up cam actuators or cam solenoids on this site alone you find tons of them that went bad. But that's just impossible on my car isn't it?
Does ANYONE understand? Jeez. Except Ampzor350
EDIT: If it helps you. It only IDLES rough. It runs smooth as butter while driving. Which is also the symptoms people describe when their cam solenoids go bad.
We DO have the build book. We DID take the front cover off AND the engine mount. We took that stuff off. Lined up TDC. Lined up the mark on the crank, then the intake, then the exhaust.
We counted 15 links between and 5 links to either side from the chain guide. Slack of the chain WAS in the back, not the front. We ONLY turned it clockwise.
We did that TWICE, AND lined up the marks HE made. Which can't be screwed up either because the distance between the cams is different than the distance from a cam to crank so the marks only line up one way.
If you look up cam actuators or cam solenoids on this site alone you find tons of them that went bad. But that's just impossible on my car isn't it?
Does ANYONE understand? Jeez. Except Ampzor350
EDIT: If it helps you. It only IDLES rough. It runs smooth as butter while driving. Which is also the symptoms people describe when their cam solenoids go bad.
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From: A.B.E. PA & Jacksonville FL
were all not criticizing or bashing you, just trying to help.. it sux's when everything is zipped up together, and later to find out either something was missed or overlooked..
I've done it in the past, even professional techs goof up once in while..
I've done it in the past, even professional techs goof up once in while..
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From: South Charleston, WV
Yeah, for sure! I'll admit my reset timing chain tensioner blew apart causing it to jump time on the crank and bent all my intake valves and blew apart every single one of my rockers on a brand new $2000 head and cams. But that taught me to never use a used timing chain tensioner in a build again. I was leery about it the whole time but didn't replace it and it ended up costing me another $600. Were not bashing you, we just don't want you to make stupid mistakes like we did and you're obviously on your way, lol...
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From: Iowa
I didn't read any posts since my last post.
I thought I would update you all on the issue. Just today... I received two new cam actuators. (The two that sit on top of the valve cover.) I replaced those and viola.... Idle is smooth... vac is steady about about 20inHg.
I knew we weren't crazy. There was just NO WAY that timing was off and I knew it.
I thought I would update you all on the issue. Just today... I received two new cam actuators. (The two that sit on top of the valve cover.) I replaced those and viola.... Idle is smooth... vac is steady about about 20inHg.
I knew we weren't crazy. There was just NO WAY that timing was off and I knew it.
Last edited by Zander916; May 5, 2012 at 02:29 AM.
Thread Starter
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From: Iowa
I still do appreciate the help a lot.
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From: South Charleston, WV
Thanks! I do apologize. I was very frustrated and growly. lol The machine shop took FOREVER to get anything done but they are one of the best around. Then we kept running into this and that. Shorted a bolt for the new clutch, missing this or that. All in all I waited 13 months to get it back. So when it wouldn't run right and we were chasing our tails. I got a little grumpy. I hope it's understandable.
I still do appreciate the help a lot.
I still do appreciate the help a lot.
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
I think you are talking about the solenoids, not the actuators.
It still does not explain why the codes changed after the timing was set for the second time. Someone had the cam timing off at least one time.
It still does not explain why the codes changed after the timing was set for the second time. Someone had the cam timing off at least one time.
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From: Iowa
Solenoids, yes.
Likely it was off I suppose. I thank you for your help Matt.
What's messed up is I contacted the dealership where I bought the car and they quoted me $138 for EACH. Unless they read it wrong to me because the part description was spot on. I contacted them by email. I bought them at another dealership for $107 for both.
That was weird.
Likely it was off I suppose. I thank you for your help Matt.
What's messed up is I contacted the dealership where I bought the car and they quoted me $138 for EACH. Unless they read it wrong to me because the part description was spot on. I contacted them by email. I bought them at another dealership for $107 for both.
That was weird.
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From: Ghettolanto
I think my timing might be off, im counting fourteen links in between the marked links. Im not counting the links on the mark themselves, so is it off by a tooth? My car hesitates to start because my cps is not connected, when it is connected it wont start. My thoughts might be that my car is off timing so the cps is might be off to. No matter how many times I tried to put on the cps senor it still never worked. It worked before I did my hg im thinking I messed up the timing. It rums, but it doesnt feel like it has the same power anymore also wastes a bit more gas also