powerz

But it still did not put down the 260 it claims

Magnus

No, it didn't.
It put down more.

firemanfrank

Your getting the idea of the "claim" wrong.

The "claim" made by GM is that the SS/T makes 260hp at the crank.

On Synapse's dyno, it made 237 hp at the wheels.

If you add in the 20-25 hp drive train loss that another Dynapack owner had tested to be true, then the 237whp of the SS/T figures out to 257-262 hp at the crank.

Exactly what GM said it made ...

pjk91

yes it did. manufacturers rate at the crank. what is so difficult about this concept.

IsItFast?

... im speechless. I suppose you think that the stg 2 s/c puts down 250hp to the wheels (even now with the dyno?)

And I might point out the T/C appears to be underrated in the torque department.. 258 lb-ft of torque at the WHEELS.....

powerz

yes I do--->BRN169 - 2007 Sport Red Cobalt SS Supercharged <262whp/224ft lbs> on a mustang dyno I was there and this is what he put down.His numbers are in the dyno thread

"227whp/203tq Dynapack Dyno=252whp/228tq So YES I DO or does only the t/c get the extra 25.Now I am really getting confused I know I have seen on here many time people saying the 205 hp of the ss s/c was at the wheel. So did GM change the way they advertise their hp ? Or was the s/c auctually 180hp ? If thats the case then holy **** you gained 72 hp from just a stage 2 kit .

lnf08ecotec

every car and every dyno is going to give you different numbers bc of the variables like how much weight you set on the rollers, etc. but I don't think the 205 hp for the ss/sc was to the wheel bc I never dyno'd my car stock but when I did after a Stage 2 install something like 2 years ago...I dyno'd in at 211whp w/ the stage 2......so it really depends but on an acurate dyno I think you'll find that the stockers were about 190 whp or so.......

powerz

yeah I know all dynos are different so just look at the numbers for the ones here the gm stage 2 did still put down over 250. and I think saying you can get over 70 more hp at the wheel with a GM stage 2 and no other mods is high

MODS: *too many to list...and still not fast*
lol yup I know what you mean

firemanfrank

Your right, which is why you've got to stop comparing one dyno against another.

There's already been "same dyno testing" of before/after Stage 2. I've linked to this post at least half a dozen times already, but here it is again.

**remember, the actual numbers aren't what's important - it's the difference in the numbers that counts**


The March 2007 edition of Modified Mag has the before/after test results for installing the GM Stage 2 kit on a stock SS/SC.

Without the Stage 2 kit, the car dyno'ed at 199.6 WHP and 177.3 ft/lbs torque

With the kit, the car dyno'ed at 223.8 WHP and 207 TQ

So, plus 24.2 WHP, plus 29.7 TQ with the Stage 2 kit.

The kit demands premium fuel from that point forward, of course. There is a big improvement in the midrange of the hp/tq curves, where a lot of spirited driving occurs.

They then added to the system the K&N Typhoon Air Intake System to the car.

This added 11.4 WHP and 1.6 TQ at the high end of the curve. Results were much less in the midrange of the hp/tq curves...very slight improvement in the 3500 to 5000 rpm range. And that was after the stage 2 kit installed....


So there you go, 223.8 WHP and 207 TQ with Stage 2 (+24.2 WHP, +29.7 TQ).

BTW, whp/trq #'s are almost EXACTLY what I got.

powerz

I am not comparing anything but the numbers you posted and I dont see where you think I am.
There was one ******* who said
"... im speechless. I suppose you think that the stg 2 s/c puts down 250hp to the wheels (even now with the dyno?)
I said
"yes I do--->BRN169 - 2007 Sport Red Cobalt SS Supercharged <262whp/224ft lbs> on a mustang dyno I was there and this is what he put down.His numbers are in the dyno thread"
<I am not compaing it to the dyno you used just saying what it put down on the dyno he was on.

Stage 2 - 227whp/203tq Dynapack Dyno(not being compared to any other dyno so STOP and read again if you think I am.)
(Stock 08 SS made 237whp/258tq on **SAME DYNO/SAME DAY**)

so if the t/c made 257-260 at the crank then the stage 2 did make only about 10 less at the crank ,correct? Adding the numbers you added to the t/c to the s/c is what about 247-250?
some people are looking at you putting up the t/c number with the added 20-25 hp (257)and putting it against the 227 you saying for the s/c and seeing a much bigger diff then there really is

I have said noting bad about the t/c. I for one like to see each genaration of car made better . Hell I wish the t/c pu out 305 like the Si .I cant wait to see what they will start putting out when mods become available.

But for thoses that think their t/c will walk all over a stage 2,you are sadly mistaken it would be a drivers race not a hp race.

and damn thoses t/c tq numbers are insane for a fwd car.But since the time attack cars specs were Engine: ECOTEC LSJ Supercharged with larger injectors and 77.9 mm pulley
Engine displacement (cu. in / cc): 2000 cc
Horsepower maximum (hp / kw): 236 hp
Torque maximum (lbs-ft / Nm): 270 lb-ft
Transmission: F35 5 spd mt with 4.45 final drive
high tq is nothing new to these cars

firemanfrank

Ok, np buddy.

(more on what my car would have put down on a Dynojet at end of thread)

Yup!

Didn't realize they were doing that ...

I'll say this much. That the dyno test bears out that a race between a Stage 2 SC vs. and a SS/T would be a lot closer than what people would have originally thought.

Yes they are!

------------------------------------------------

Ok, now for what my Stage 2 would have made on a Dynojet ...

I recently posted a link where a Dynapack shop had a Youtube video showing how they tested a car on their dyno, and then on the same day on a Dynojet:
"Dynapack and DynoJet head to head comparison"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZXbk3o-xHg

In their back-to-back testing, they reported a 10% loss on the Dynapack vs. the Dynojet.

That being said, my 227whp/203tq on the Dynapack would have been the equivalent of 252whp/226tq on a Dynojet.

Very interesting!

firemanfrank

^I should also have noted that those same 10% conversion factors verified by that dyno shop would put the SS/T at 263whp/286tq on a roller dyno.

That would place the SS/T at #13 on the list of 49 results on this forum's "OFFICIAL Dyno Thread (take two)".

My Stage 2 SC would be at the #24 spot!

ralliartist

where did you get these specs?

IsItFast?

Si? Honda civic Si? That doesnt make sense since the 08 civic Si is 197 horsepower at 7800 rpm and 139 lb.-ft. of torque at 6100 rpm. What car are you referring to?

I agree about the aftermarket - I cant wait to see what these cars are capable of - for all we know they are about maxed out for reliability right now . I am really concerned with how well the transmission will hold more power, since we are at its max now, and it looking at the graphs, it seems as though GM intentionally tuned the power back.

BTW I am going to a Dynojet dyno later this week. Ill open a new thread with the results, since it wouldn't be valid comparing it here. I still havent found anyone in the Raleigh/Durham area with a Stage 2 that would be willing to dyno with me (I'D EVEN PAY!)

firemanfrank

Umm, how far is Raleigh from Upstate N.Y.?

Seriously, Stage 2 SC peeps that live near I/I/F ...

Take him up on his freakin offer already!

powerz

lol yeah sorry I ment STi

here you go
http://www.tuninglinx.com/html/cobal...charged-2.html

chris88z24

Did you see my dyno numbers frank?

firemanfrank

Yup!

See my reply.

SynapseTurbo

here are chris' dyno numbers.

ChevySKIDOO

good job synapse and firemanfrank on all that work done.

it means alot since i dont think i can get anything dynoed where i live.

keep it up guys.

i wan to get the catback system form gm. do you guys think its worth it. any gains?

NoBalt123

Hey, I sent you a PM, but i'm definately down for a comparison. If you don't already have a shop picked out, there is Phantasm off Capital Blvd, or RPM down in Raleigh.

Blackout06LS

Nice video. I noticed the nearly $500 Snap-On Impact wrench. I got one out in the shop. I LOVE IT.

Dynopack don't have to worry about the car taking off due to poor strapping.

SynapseTurbo

haha you got that right, its definately a must have around the shop. a lot of money but definately worth every penny. we use them so much we got two now.

Blackout06LS

I love mine got a extra battery for it too. How much you end up paying? Mine was around $521 or close to it out door because I bought about 9K that day on the truck.

Speaking of which I need to call them and find a settlement. Being unemployed SUCKS. I'm losing everything. But I'm going to start on a fresh clean slate when I leave for basic training.

Hahn RaceCraft

Wheel and tire combinations have significant effect on the overall car's inertial response to acceleration. Removing them during testing removes a dynamic aspect of the car's actual 'on-road' performance. It's almost as if the results then fall into some vague range between engine dynos and real wheel dynos. In order to compensate for this, the dyno's software has to 'fudge' the numbers somewhat, and the compensation factor can only be an approximation.

It works, it's just missing this detail of actual on-road results, which is what we typically rely on a chassis dyno to show.

Well, heh, if you indeed paid double the price of a comparable Dynojet, then I can understand why you'd feel a bit raw...I would too! But as far as inaccurate information goes, I don't see this as a true statment based upon published pricing.

Expense also goes to installation, which is a key component of the overall cost, and this lower cost (read: Less Expensive) is touted by Dynapack's own website as a 'selling point':

Our cost: Purchase price or lease payment

Our competitors cost:

• Purchase price or lease payment
• Additional components
• Computer
• Installation costs
• Training costs
• Insurance
• Electricity
• Lost shop space

So, no offense intended....Dynapack has its fans. I just offered an explanation to a question asked.