I'm looking to upgrade my intercooler in the near future and I'm looking at a few different manufacturers. The Hahn is very nice, however I'm not looking to spend ~$800 for it, so that one is out! So, I was also looking at Synapse and Crazy Steve's Intercooler. Synapse sells there intercooler for ~$450 and Crazy Steve sells his intercooler for ~$275. I'm really leaning toward the Crazy Steve intercooler. The price is good and I love the way it looks. For those of you who have the Crazy Steve intercooler, what, if any, problems do you have with them. Should I stay away from it and go with Synapse, or should I shell out the massive amount of dough the Hahn intercooler costs and call it a day?

 

i like my crazy steve intercooler but i got it for free.
or i woulda gotten modern performances, or zzps.
it seems its a hit or miss with it.
some people have fitment issues, other people like make it work.
my buddy also had no issues with his.
lowers iats for sure, and it looks great.

 

Sub'd for future use

 

I have the CS and i dont have a problem. now if you can wait I would wait untell ZZP makes theirs. or just have ZZP make you a race IC

 

I think that I'm going to suck it up and get either the Hahn intercooler or the Synapse intercooler. They are definitely more expensive, especially the Hahn, but in the end, you get what you pay for. I just searched a little about Crazy Steve's and it seems like alot of people have fitment issues and customer service problems. I've also seen people say that the IAT's are the same or worse than stock! Well, that defeats the purpose of getting an aftermarket intercooler for me. I havn't found too much said about Synapse though. Any comments on the Synapse intercooler?

 

honestly I would wait if I was you ZZP is making an IC that is suppose to out perform hahn's in many ways and its gonna be cheaper! its already on there site for pre orders!

Check it out! -->https://www.zzperformance.com/cobalt...1185&catid=187

 

The Crazy Steve IC performed worst than stock according to someone on here datalogging it. Just wait for ZZP to release theirs.

 

Alright, guys. I'll wait a little bit to see how the ZZ Performance unit performs.

 

where is crazy steves located?

 

I recently talked to a guy on the phone from Mondern Perfomance they are still got thier intercoolers int the works and oil catch cans in manufacturing and might release both at the same time. I don't know when those will get release.

 

hahn

no issues whatsoever

 

Does it cause more TURBO LAG? Larger>>>>greater pressure drop. If so, does it really *pay* to get one with the stock turbo? Has anyone determined added HP attributed to larger intercooler in this application?

 

I have never heard of anyone that has complained about boost lag due to a larger IC on the SS/TC, if its bigger it can mean less restriction as well and actually help boost build quicker.

 

I did a quick random search and found this...

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2717896

Since there is more volume to fill from the turbo to the throttle body, there will inevitably be more 'lag' but you may not notice it. You will need a retune unless you're confident that your first tune was rather conservative. If this was my setup, i would hold off on the intercooler install until you're ready to retune on more boost...theres no point to tune again just to change an IC where you stand to gain nothing at the moment.

and this:

What exactly is 'pressure drop/loss' / 'flow loss' and how are they measured?
Pressure loss, or pressure drop, refers to the change in pressure when comparing the air entering the intercooler with the exiting air. This change is mostly affected by the internal flow area of the intercooler. Flow loss, however, is measured not just with pressure loss but with how much restriction to airflow exists.
Maximum performance can be obtained if the pressure loss is kept below 1.0 to 1.5 psi. Anything in excess of these numbers, especially higher than 3.8 psi, and the intercooler is not properly fitted for the application which results in hindered performance and dramatically decreased functionality of the intercooler system itself.

 

That is true but people who get an IC on our cars typically do not complain about boost loss, I dunno maybe the stock end tanks are restrictive and a larger IC helps it open up.

 

Well, "Bigger" isn't always better. Not knocking the intercooler upgrades for this car, but it might be best for cars using BIGGER turbos and/or much higher boost. I would like to see real HP/Torque #s on a car with GM1/Trifecta 22lb tune (modest boost increases) comparing upgrade vs stock intercooler. Are there any here?

OK, I found this from Hahn:

http://www.turbosystem.com/ProjectVe...%20Upgrade.htm

Now...they say the upgrade kicks ass. I disagree. Here's why.
They try and show the difference between runs after heat soak...so what? Sure, the larger intercooler will heat sink out the hot air quicker between runs, so Bigger cooler will work better after the car sits...but that only holds for a short period of time until you get going again. Who gives a sh##T? We only *care* about peerformance when DRIVING the car and air is moving through it.
Look at the INITIAL runs Stock vs Hahn. 278HP vs 284..not significant and within the range of *variation* on different dyno runs.
More telling>>>>

LOOK AT THE HP GAINS FROM 68MPH UP IN THIRD GEARon the graphs
The Hahn doesn't reach max HP until 80MPH, while the stock reached Max HP quicker at 76MPH (we don't have rpms in the graphs).

STOCK LOOK AT 3RD GEAR 68MPH UP

HAHN LOOK AT THIRD GEAR 68 MPH UP


Found another post pretty much related to this debate on *Is Bigger Better*?

http://forums.evolutionm.net/7218561-post6.html

Like 3 years ago I wrote a good article regarding stock turbo and big intercooler. I fitted the biggest intercooler you could fit on a Evo III (back then it was the Nisei). I never ran faster nor quicker, I lost spool up(spool up got worse) and maximum boost but later on I was able to compensate the max boost by turning the MBC. I sold my intercooler within weeks, also, no increase on power after adding other bol-ons like header, 3" o2 housing and another thing, can't remember if it was the inginition amplifier.


The stock intercooler does a fantastic job. I buildt 2G GSX using basic bolt ons, I managed to squeeze 409 whp(mustang dyno) with the stock Evo intercooler. I am a firm believer that the stock intercooler could easily support 450whp+. I don't have internals on my 7 bolt 2G DSM otherwise I would had crank the boost up on my FP3052 and I would asure you I could see 500 whp out of the stock Evo IC.

Stick with the stock intercooler if you are using the stock turbo. Yeah, some people claim some gains with upgarding the intercooler but perhaps there are other loses as well(spool up and lost of boost).

I would only suggest upgrading the intercooler if you are pushing plenty of air(bigger turbo) otherwise I would leave it stock. Unlike other cars such the Stealth/3000 GT VR4, 1 G DSM, 2 g DSM, Audis TT, the Evo intercooler not only is "big" but it is also positioned ina privileged location, it truly gets all the air.

Additionally, I wrote another article 3-4 years ago in which I pointed out the fact that the Evos are limited in the amount of surface in contact with the outside air. Basically if you put a intercooler that is excesively huge you will then block good portions of the intercooler with the bumper.

 

I've had Hahn's intercooler since it first debuted and had no problems at all since

 

Glad to hear that..wouldn't think there would be a problem. My point is...does it really benefit performance? They try to show that it makes a big difference after heat soak (sitting still after shut down)..and it does. But what does that fact have to do with a car that is MOVING and not under heat soak? ZIP. It sure looks bitchin' and may even be better built than stock..I say *maybe*. But if you're getting this to benefit performance, I say you're wasting $$$ UNLESS you're using a bigger Turbo or much higher boost (good luck there too ).

 

I have a friend that went with the CS intercooler. He did end up having to tweak his tune due to the pressure drop across it (wasn't a big deal since he is a tuner for Vince). There are two big things that prevented me from getting it... 1.) It actually partially covers the radiator (not a good thing imo) and 2.) the inlet/outlet angles to the core. You really want something that makes a smooth transition into and out of the intercooler core. I actually ended up biting the bullet and going with Hahn (after all I am only going to do this once) and I must say that I am really glad I did. The piece is extremely well designed and made. Fitment hasn't been an issue, but then again I did have the bumper removed. I also like the way the ZZP IC looks as well - but who knows when it will actually hit (release date not necessarily = to actual release date when it comes to an aftermarket vendor).

One more thing... I chose to upgrade the intercooler based on several other intercooler swaps. The thing that I hadn't realized prior to the swap was how restrictive the inlet/outlet on the stock intercooler was. In that respect alone upgrading the intercooler is a worth-while endeavor.

 

the stock IC size is perfect for the stock turbo...most people think the bigger is better...must be told that by the DSM/srt4 guys

 

With my Hahn, it's not uncommon to have IAT2s of 1 degree above ambient when continuously moving. There is no noticeable lag that I've seen.

It heat soaks at a stop, but cools to within ten degrees of ambient again somewhat quickly. If you continue moving, it'll cool more.

I'll post up what I find from an extended run while moving if it's of interest to people next time I do one. That's just as important in my opinion, because if you take it to a road course and it heats up a good deal while moving, then you'll be hot the whole time during the course probably.

The size of the IC is sometimes also it's strength. Not only would it have more surface to exchange heat through (though also a function of its design), but it can take longer for IAT2s to build up during a run. The downside is once that extra metal is hot, it sometimes takes longer to cool it again (though once again is also a function of its design).

 

Ah, but then again we don't all have stock turbos

I actually didn't upgrade my intercooler until my turbo upgrade. Although the inlet and outlet of the intercooler is restrictive, the intercooler is adequate for the stock turbo. I have no problems with the stock ic core - that seems to be adequate across the line... the problem lies in the restrictive ends...

The Hahn ic actually isn't that much bigger than stock when comparing them side by side - it just has better fins and ends...

 

its not "that" much bigger but its taller so it hangs just below the crash bar... gets in the way of my tow hook :/

 

Was just thinking about this with a friend yesterday, but what's keeping us from just sticking a fan or two on the back of them like they do for radiators? I think we've got the room for them. I'd have to check. That could help with heatsoak when stopped.

 

With the fan on there, it won't flow as good when moving.

To all those with the Hahn IC: I would hope you're not having issues at the severely bloated price of that piece. Remember: you're only one raccoon away from spending another $750.