2.0L LNF Performance Tech 260hp and 260 lb-ft of torque Turbocharged tuner version.

LNF Upgrade/Stage Question

Old 12-23-2008, 11:58 AM
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LNF Upgrade/Stage Question

Just wondering but did anyone hear if the new upgrade kit from GM for the LNF gets rid of the "learn down" feature? i was just wondering if their tune just moves the learn down to 290hp and whatever tq level and then moves the learn down limit to their as well...hopefully you guys get what I'm asking. I read a couple threads and what not about it but havent seen this mentioned, if it was just point me in the right direction. Thanks.
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Old 12-23-2008, 12:02 PM
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It's not a "Learn Down" feature like people think. It is an AirLoad limit. it reduces the maximum airload to a certain amount of air for a given RPM/Load range.

In order to control the horsepower to only 290bhp which is supposedly 18-19psi, there still has to be an airload limit imposed otherwise the turbo would make 25+psi. So you tell me if there is still going to be a limit.

Now, on the other hand it looks like the tune might not be locked afterall so that a tuner could utilize the upgraded operating system to work with the 3 BAR sensors and raise the airload limits further. This will benefit torque more than HP, as we have to currently limit psi to 22.5 or less to avoid shutting the car down.
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Old 12-23-2008, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Psykostevo View Post
It's not a "Learn Down" feature like people think. It is an AirLoad limit. it reduces the maximum airload to a certain amount of air for a given RPM/Load range.

In order to control the horsepower to only 290bhp which is supposedly 18-19psi, there still has to be an airload limit imposed otherwise the turbo would make 25+psi. So you tell me if there is still going to be a limit.

Now, on the other hand it looks like the tune might not be locked afterall so that a tuner could utilize the upgraded operating system to work with the 3 BAR sensors and raise the airload limits further. This will benefit torque more than HP, as we have to currently limit psi to 22.5 or less to avoid shutting the car down.
hmmmmm^^^food for thought
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Old 12-23-2008, 01:11 PM
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so my next question is then will things like an aftermarket exhaust, dp, intake...actually help after the gm upgrade? i mean i think i understand what your saying but that air load limit will keep it at the new limit so an intake still wont help much?
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Old 12-23-2008, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by hilty003 View Post
so my next question is then will things like an aftermarket exhaust, dp, intake...actually help after the gm upgrade? i mean i think i understand what your saying but that air load limit will keep it at the new limit so an intake still wont help much?
According to what I've read on other forums the guy designing the kits said yes, aftermarket parts will increase power but the tune is limited to not over spin the turbo and cause damage.

I really can't remember what forum it was on but I'm sure other members have seen it to. This info came straight from the horses mouth.
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Old 12-23-2008, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by EvilleCobalt View Post
According to what I've read on other forums the guy designing the kits said yes, aftermarket parts will increase power but the tune is limited to not over spin the turbo and cause damage.

I really can't remember what forum it was on but I'm sure other members have seen it to. This info came straight from the horses mouth.
sweet thats pretty much what i wanted to know. if someone finds the article or anything id like a link to read up about it.

psykostevo, would you think this is true?

Last edited by hilty003; 12-23-2008 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 12-23-2008, 01:48 PM
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All your questions will be answered here

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...-review-52407/

I know it's long but please read the whole thread
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Old 12-23-2008, 01:49 PM
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holy crap 12 pages haha. i'll read it here shortly tho. thanks.
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Old 12-23-2008, 01:50 PM
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no prob

very good info there for all
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Old 12-23-2008, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by hilty003 View Post
so my next question is then will things like an aftermarket exhaust, dp, intake...actually help after the gm upgrade? i mean i think i understand what your saying but that air load limit will keep it at the new limit so an intake still wont help much?
The catback exhaust wont help any noticeable amount period for these performance levels.

The airload table effects everything pre-throttlebody. And adding to the airflow will just mean it can reduce boost to meet those airflow demands. More airflow and less boost means better performance generally, since boost is actually a bad thing.

Take for example a Roush mustang with an 8psi supercharger vs a single turbo mustang running 7psi. The Roush will make roughly 430bhp @ 8psi, and the turbo will make roughly 530bhp @ 7psi. It's not about the boost, it's about the airflow.

And the airload limits dont control based on how much HP you make, strictly on how much air it will let in the system before it starts to actuate the wastegate.

I've already seen the kit in person. And talked about it with Saturn last month.

Here are my pics.





You can note that the sensors come with un-color coded wire leads, so that only someone with the proper instructions would know how to install them. And they didn't use shrink wrap on this kit, they used good ole fashioned Electrical Tape.......real high quality install LOL, they even over torqued the bolts and broke both of the sensors

I assume it's safe to leak this info now.

Last edited by Psykostevo; 12-23-2008 at 02:47 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:08 PM
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nice, the work of a good GM tech...
steve have you tried to read an ecu with the GM tune yet?
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Psykostevo View Post
The catback exhaust wont help any noticeable amount period for these performance levels.

The airload table effects everything pre-throttlebody. And adding to the airflow will just mean it can reduce boost to meet those airflow demands. More airflow and less boost means better performance generally, since boost is actually a bad thing.

Take for example a Roush mustang with an 8psi supercharger vs a single turbo mustang running 7psi. The Roush will make roughly 430bhp @ 8psi, and the turbo will make roughly 530bhp @ 7psi. It's not about the boost, it's about the airflow.

And the airload limits dont control based on how much HP you make, strictly on how much air it will let in the system before it starts to actuate the wastegate
.
i found that particularily interesting. thanks alot for the info. im learning alot today lol
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MaxVQ35DE View Post
nice, the work of a good GM tech...
steve have you tried to read an ecu with the GM tune yet?
No, they would not let me do that. I would have liked to though. The tunes come from Irmscher in Germany so I doubt they are locked.
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:41 PM
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Hey Steve, do you know if any of the Solstice/Sky guys with the upgrade that have tried to scan theirs with HPT?

Has anyone sent anything to [email protected] yet?
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Old 12-23-2008, 04:04 PM
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there was a tuner over at the hhr forums that actaully made like 330 wheel after reading the gm tune and using it to tune an hhr even furthur with upgraded ic/piping/exhaust etc, I belive his name is andy, not sure the name of his company.

used the 3 bar map, not sure what boost level he made that hp at however.

car made 297 with stock gm stage tune with the above parts i believe, then it made 330 or so when he fooled with it a bit(prob more boost)
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Old 12-23-2008, 05:09 PM
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this sounds like its going to end up as an excellent deal. upgraded tables and sensors, not to mention possibly unlocked 8D its going to make some good power once steve gets one of those haha
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Old 12-23-2008, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
this sounds like its going to end up as an excellent deal. upgraded tables and sensors, not to mention possibly unlocked 8D its going to make some good power once steve gets one of those haha
Let's hope so. I'm still not convinced the turbo has any breath left in it after 5,500rpm. Sure I could jack your low end boost up to 26psi and have fun with all that torque, but I plan to write a responsible and drivable tune.

Not to mention that the HHR guy uses a dyno that reads higher HP numbers than the one I use. He baselines cars about 20whp higher, could be a number of factors though like fuel, altitude, temperature etc.

The dyno I use is outdoors in the sun, most shop keep theirs inside and all pretty with fans blowing and an A/C unit running in the shop.
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Old 12-23-2008, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Psykostevo View Post
It's not a "Learn Down" feature like people think. It is an AirLoad limit. it reduces the maximum airload to a certain amount of air for a given RPM/Load range.

In order to control the horsepower to only 290bhp which is supposedly 18-19psi, there still has to be an airload limit imposed otherwise the turbo would make 25+psi. So you tell me if there is still going to be a limit.

Now, on the other hand it looks like the tune might not be locked afterall so that a tuner could utilize the upgraded operating system to work with the 3 BAR sensors and raise the airload limits further. This will benefit torque more than HP, as we have to currently limit psi to 22.5 or less to avoid shutting the car down.

soo, the real question is:

GM stage 1 or Psychotune!

Which do u think will be better??
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Old 12-23-2008, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 1BADSS/SC View Post
soo, the real question is:

GM stage 1 or Psychotune!

Which do u think will be better??
That's not a fair comparison.

I will however try to get my hands on some of these sensors to provide with these "Level 2" kits as I will call them. Since my tune without sensors outperforms GM Stage 1 already.
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Old 12-23-2008, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Psykostevo View Post
That's not a fair comparison.

I will however try to get my hands on some of these sensors to provide with these "Level 2" kits as I will call them. Since my tune without sensors outperforms GM Stage 1 already.
I knd of figure urs will be better.
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