After the winter I'm looking to build the engine. I want to go with the Wiseco 88mm (TTR sells them for the LNF) and the Darton sleeves (I spoke to them, they said they can supply 88mm bore sleeves). I know that Matt M is running this bore on his car with no issue. Has anyone else of you running these 88mm pistons? If so, are you guys having any problems?
Also, I'm looking to get the head/cam combo from zzp, which I believe it includes the 78# Supertech valve springs. I saw that TTR sells the Supertech .5mm oversized inconel valves and I'm thinking to get them. Does anyone of you have them? How do they run? Btw, the rods that I will be installing are the Carrillo H-Beam.
If you guys can provide some info, I would really appreciate it.
Thank you
Christian

 

I think your wasting money on sleeves and over sized pistons. I believe zzp produced over 600hp on a stock lnf before it blew. The gen 2 sleeves we have in the lnf are pretty stout all you need to do is hone the cylinder walls and slap new rods and pistons in... Thats what I did and I believe cmiller did the same thing

 

Well, even if Matt M said that he's running 88mm pistons, on zzp website they say that the stock sleeves get too weak if they get bored to 88mm

 

I didn't think you needed to hone anything. Just put the new rods and pistons in. You are wasting your money with sleeves.

 

Its a honing brush that you attach to your power drill to smooth your cylinder walls so the piston rings seat properly.

And about 88mm pistons the cost vs benifit I don't think is worth it. Your going to spend quite a bit more to resleeve your block all for what? to spool the turbo a 100 rpm quicker. I would just run stock sized wiesco pistons imo

 

If you get the Weisco pistons and K1 rods you will need to rebalance the rotating assembly. You should get the neutral balance shafts if you getting the ZZP head for better high rpm performance

 

the factory block is good for over 600 hp with the factory bore sizes the failure that zzp experienced were bending rods getting out of balance and eventually kicked out of the engine. a good set of rods and factory bore pistons should do just fine.

 

Im running weisco pistons and carrillo h beam rods weighed them to make sure they were the same i never rebalanced it

 

What turbo do you have?

 

I believe what the OP is wanting to do would give him the 2.1L that ZZP has been getting their recent times with. To get there, the engine has the 2.4L's bore (88mm) and the 2.0L's stroke (86mm). In their Tech Article it states that:
(ZZP LNF Cobalt Runs 10.99 | | ZZP NewsZZP News)

They didn't resleeve though from the sound of it. In fact I just read something on another *cough* Saturn Redline Ecotec-related forum (under the thread "Wow it's been a minute") where they kinda got into it with a Darton rep around how they had been seeing some block integrity issues with sleeving. They talked about how resleeving tended to weaken the block in a few key areas, causing the block to be prone to splitting. The only way around this was to drive the studs completely through the block. They instead pursued developing/integrating their ZZP block girdle.

OP, it sounds to me like you'd be best off seeing about ZZP's girdle, boring, and going with the 88mm Wiseco option if you're wanting to go 2.1L.

Edit:
Looks like I made a forum circle here. That forum link actually pulls from a convo on this forum, here: https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l...blocks-264562/

Good info there, btw.

 

What you SHOULD do is just have the car dropped off at ZZP and write a check. Come back a few weeks later and drive home with a **** eating grin on your face.

 

Amen. Drop it off, swap that motor.

 

I would, but Matt just wrote me that they don't sleeve the motor. Plus, I'm not swapping anything, I want to keep the block that I have

 

Then that saves you money. I'd STILL drop it off.

 

I've seen that TTR sells the wiseco 88mm for the LNF, and that OTTP sells the Dartons for the 2.2 engine. If those sleeves fit the LNF block, I don't even need to have them bored, since the 2.2 has a 88mm bored engine. I wonder if I can fit that combination

 

why are you so obsessed with running sleeves? sleeve sleeve sleeve. You don't need them bro. You can get over 600whp on a properly built block without sleeves! God damn, you don't need them. Save your dough and buy a bigger turbo.

 

I have the AutoWerks 55/57 kit, so I'm not looking to replace the turbo for now. Since I have to get the block apart, I was looking to do everything at once. It may be just me, but I don't like to run such a big power on the stock sleeves. I know that for somebody it sounds a little crazy, but since I will be spending thousands for the engine, I think minus as well throw another $ 700 and get stronger and bored sleeves. Then I keep my other T/C just with bolts on for daily driving, but I'm trying to get the most power possible out of this one.

 

I'm not sure the sleeves were even a problem in some of the higher ecotec drag motors, they had nothing of the variety of darton sleeves. It's not like you have a B16 with tiny sleeves that are the weak part of the block. They and the bottom end are the strong parts.


I understand what you are saying, but that money could be better spent on a gm racing trans, i think.




PS your car looks sick. It's black just like mine (from what I think I saw in the videos). Sounds good too. Faster than mine. (For now) LOL

 

Lol. On the dyno it is 409whp and 389tq. I'm looking for the entire engine build, I want to do it once and that's it. I just need to find out if the Dartons for the 2.2 fit the LNF block. In that case I will bore the engine, otherwise I will stay with the factory 86mm bore. The only thing that I don't like is the spooling time, it is around 4k. I hope that if I can have the 88mm wiseco, oversized inconel valves, ported head and zzp cams, the spooling time will drop. Even if it would be at 3500 rpms I would be happy

 

My bad. I just realized that the 2.2 also has a 86mm bore

 

A precision dual ball bearing 5857

 

if you don't like your spool time get an efr with a t3 flange and get a t3/vband adapter and slap it on your pwerks manifold....then sell the 5557 to offset some of the cost. do rods, pistons, springs/retainers, cam with fuel lobe and call it a day


losts of money saved this way instead of doing things that aren't necessary just to decrease you spool time. there are better ways going about decreasing spool time

 

What this guy said

 

Sleeves are a bad idea. All you need to know is in this thread:
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l...blocks-264562/

So I won't repeat it.
I can say that stock sleeves in the Gen 1 and Gen 2 blocks are the same, it's just that the Gen 2 has a little more material around the stock sleeve. For serious builds, you want our girdle in the block. Better, stronger, lighter, cheaper than sleeves. The thing to do seems the 2.1 liter setup But that requires a new block. Still way better, cheaper, etc than what you're discussing. ZZP has all the parts in stock.

 

Mr. Zooomer,
I've read all the thread that you linked, and I'm very impressed how you explained the pros and cons of every option. Also, it is great how you don't knock anybody down and treating every competitor with respect, the opposite of like somebody (Mr. Darton) was trying to do with you. Vendors like you are great, giving us all the pros and cons of every product without trying to lead us toward a bad track just to make money.
I would like to ask you something: the girdle is basically a support that holds the block together tighter? Sorry but since english is not my main language, I have hard time sometimes to understand technical words and to follow technical discussions.
If I understood the girdle right, could the block be girdled and still be sleeved? If yes, would it be better, worse or just useless?
Thank you
Christian