How many RPM difference would a T3/T04E 50 trim stage 3 wheel .63 A/R have vs. a
T3/T04E 60 trim stage 3 wheel .63 .A/R on our 2.0 motors, both are non-BB? Full boost about 4k rpms for the 60 trim or are we talking lag city?
Yes I know these are older turbo technology and yes I know they are still some of the best (proven) pump gas turbo chargers available for the money ($600-700 for a true Garrett model).

 

I'd go with the 50 trim mainly because your redline is so low, if your redline was 8k+ i'd go with the 60 trim. The 50 trim will hit full boost between 37-3800rpm on a 2.0 dsm, while the 60 trim will be right around 4k, if you play with your cam timing you might get it to spool a bit quicker.

 

Thanks man, that was the info I was looking for.

But another question, what if you had a 9.5:1 compression motor, would the 60 trim be good to go, or would it still be to laggy?

 

you should go with a T3/T4 hybrid from Turbonetics. I know a guy who used to have one in his motor before he got rid of it. you just gonna have to fabricate the turbo manifold in order for it to fit and get it tuned and sell your old turbo to get your money's back on it.

 

no u should not go with any turbo from turbonetics unless u take it apart and build it so it doesnt blow after 5k miles. turbonetics = fail

 

agreed! garret percision and and borg and warner are my choices.

 

It will help a little bit, but if you're not going to up the redline i wouldn't bother with the 60 trim, the 50 trim will still be pulling past 6500rpm.
If you upgrade the springs and retainers you should be easily able to rev to 8k.

 

Thanks again, after doing a little more research I found that the T3/T04E 50 trim is a much more effecient turbo and all around better pump gas turbo then a 54, 57, or 60 trim
T3/T04E. that the T3/T04E is considered by many to be the pump king turbo. I found some post of people making 360ish whp on 91 pump gas and 450-500whp on 93-94 octane. Pretty impressive you ask me.

To the posters above I'm looking at Garrett's, Turbonetics quality has went to crap.

 

Blouch makes some good turbos but i am not sure if they have anything for the cobalt

 

I remember back in my dsm days one fellow hitting 500whp on pump gas on that 50 trim, however he was using a much larger turbine housing which added a significant amount of lag. It was a great feat but there were lots of little tricks needed to get there, if you get to 400whp on pump gas you should be happy.

 

ew journal bearing

 

Surprisingly your only looking at a 500 rpm difference in spooling between a journal T3/T04E 50 trim vs. a BB T3/T04E, but the BB cost $495.00 more. Sure doesn't look worth it to me, when you compare the same turbo's.

 

Journal bearing turbos certainly have their place, but it's hardly fair to say $495 = 500 rpm. The ball bearing units certainly have more to offer than those RPM. How about reduced heat from friction, longevity, etc?

 

lol. doubt it. there is a reason one is cheaper. idk. i guess i just don't consider putting halfassed things on my car.

 

If a turbo makes 400whp on a 2.0L DSM, it will probably make 350whp on our LNF due to the sumabitch ECM. Our numbers with bigger turbos always come out lower without some extreme hacking lol.

 

FYI, your Ecotec has 'halfassed' journal bearing in it from factory.

There is a lot of misconception when it comes to journal bearings. Everyone thinks it's simply a shaft running on a brass sleeve, which isn't actually the whole story.

 

Half assed journal T3/T04E 50 trim stage 3 wheel .63 A/R > supercharger upgrade with pulley. And way cheaper unless your going to buy a used supercharger lol.

Why do you think that is, restrictive head? So ZZP's set up on a 2.0 dsm would make more power at the same boost level?

Well found a DSM with a S256 "Borg Warner S256 11.2 @125 479 AWHP 428 ft. lbs" I couldn't find what his boost was set to or if that was pump gas. But I did read that this S256 "half assed journal bearing turbo (in response to 05slowline)" spooled up as fast or faster then a BB turbo.

You can buy the regular S256 for $800, but I see most people use the extended tip?

 

um no i know exactly what turbo it is you're looking at and it's already been on an lsj and didn't spool till mid 4's he hated it.....

 

Well he must have had major problems with his set up, most the cars I'm looking at are running a 8.5:1 compression ratio on 2.0L engines and hitting full spool between 3500-3800rpm on the journal bearing. Your basing your opinion of the turbo off one persons build vs. me basing mine off multiple builds with dyno sheets by searching the world wide web.

Did this guy do this build up and post it up on a forum somewhere, if so, link me up? I'd like to read it.

 

Lol, um no he didn't, it was the turbo.

http://cheapturbo.stores.yahoo.net/gat357trw63a.html

IDC if you searched the net are you looking at ecotec 2.0l specific applications or are you looking at every other 2l out there???? There are a vast amount of differences between engines so you can't really compare an ecotec to another motor. Go ahead and get it learn the hard way, there is a reason it's a 600 dollar turbo and a BB costs over a G. Not tryin to be a dick or nothin just stating the obvious man.

 

Mainly 2.0 16v dohc engines, those euro boys with ecotec Saabs sure seem to love the
T3/T04E 50 trim. Now I don't know the exact engine specs but I would guess there 2.0 ecotec turbo is very similar to ours.

 

I still think the majority of our problems go back to tuning. If we had a complete suite, it would be easier to realize the potential of any given turbo, ball bearing or otherwise. The head flow may not be that of a K20a3 for example, but a lot of power can be put through a stock head - ask hahn about their stock head turbo sunfire.

479awhp is up there when you consider drivetrain loss. I'd bet those numbers wont happen on an LNF with HPT as the sole tuning device.

 

The correct tuning is available... Find the right people and get setup correctly (hint hint) lol

 

You must have been referring to ZZP, lol.

 

I didn't say the correct tuning wasn't available, it's just not available in one end user controllable entity. You can do GMPP tune overlayed with trifecta overlayed with HPT. It may get the job done, but those of us who shelled out for HPT should be able to do it all. The software should not be the limiting factor in making power, the hardware should. Not so in our case when solely using HPT