vahdyx

iTrader: (7)

So I've learned a great deal from this site, and I thank you all for your knowledge and opinions. This is my dilemma as of right now. On the 17th of this month I am gonna tune my car. I have a spare ECU coming and that ECU is gonna be tuned either with Trifecta or ZZP. I've learned a lot about Trifecta and HPTuners and this sounds great, I like the "custom" part of it, but I don't know how much "customizing" I'm gonna do. On my desires list is Tune and Lowering springs. Then I'm happy with the car the way it is. It's fast enough and it's sexy enough for my liking. If I do, choose to mod it, it'll probably be exhaust and downpipe, but that's still undecided.

I'm thinking about ZZP because I hear "Canned" tunes are good for stock cars and that's it. A couple of ZZP tune users on this site has stated to me that the fuel trims and air fuel ratios are identical to stock in summer and winter. So If I choose this route I'll be saving $350 not buying the Trifecta cable, $150 if I return the cable. So if I don't do anything else to my car is it worth saving the $150 if not why?

I can also go for the Trifecta "Budget" tune which is also like ZZP's canned tune.

Why would I want Trifecta is I guess what I'm asking if I'm not really customizing anything (parts).



Original Message

RYRO14

iTrader: (1)

Trifecta. I think the ZZP tune is canned but im not sure. Canned tunes arent favorably because every car reacts differently to tuning. Also altitude, gas quality and mods effect how a car reacts to tuning and a canned tune is to basic to be "good" IMO. Thats why Trifecta or HP Tuners are typically favorable because they are custom for your car and mods.

ssblackstealth

iTrader: (8)

the zzp is a can tune, you will get better performance out of it yea....but nothing like what a custom tune can do for you

y buy a ss cobalt to mod it, when the cobalt ls is just as good.....see what im saying

vahdyx

iTrader: (7)

No I don't get what you're saying.

Are you saying why buy a cobalt SS when a Cobalt LS is just as good since I don't really feel like Modding heavily like others on this forum?

If so, I don't get your logic.

doober321

I don't get it. Ls is not as good lawlz

ixxgh0stxxi

iTrader: (1)

i went with trifecta and i must say i love it.... Vince is incredible fast with all his emails and responses, and the car feels great. I cant speak for zzp tho but i know they have great products as well, and i will be purchasing a couple items from them in the near near future.

blucavvy

trifecta= guys that say they tune without actually even knowing what the car's a/f ratio is. A.K.A. CRAP.

hptuner's endthread/

vahdyx

iTrader: (7)

If I understand correctly ZZP uses HPtuners.

sponge14

I don't know why people call Trifecta tunes canned. When you get his base tune, you put it in the car and go drive around with the datalog hooked up. You go back and forth sending the data and putting the re-written tune on your car until Vince likes what he sees in your datalogs. You don't have to be on a dyno to get a custom tune...

Other benefits to the Trifecta are the fact that you can have it switchable (mines tied to the traction control button), and the fact that it runs in a stealth mode so to speak. Not as big a deal since you are swapping ECM's but it still is a good thing to have if for whatever reason you bring your car in for some other work and they scan your ECM.

I would also never say anything bad about ZZP as people seem to really like them.

ixxgh0stxxi

iTrader: (1)

^^^^^^ what he said, you send him ur data log files and vince tunes it accordingly

blucavvy

there's nothing wrong with the way that trifecta tune's. other than one major, MAJOR flaw. they don't know what the car's a/f ratio is when they're "tuning".

so yes, hptuners all the way. you want an actual "custom", for your car tune? hptuners is the only way to go.

Wangspeed

iTrader: (2)

I had a chance to look at a canned ZZP tune, and I don't get it at all. The DAL table is fine, and they went conservative there. But in other places, it doesn't make sense at all, like timing. I ended up modifying my friend's tune, and he's much happier with the car now.

efactor

iTrader: (2)

what mods did your buddy had? how was the fuel trims with his intake? any difference from the GMS1?

Wangspeed

iTrader: (2)

He doesn't have GMS1 MAP sensors, so you're talking apples to oranges.

sponge14

Not sure what you mean by they don't know what the AF ratio is while tuning?

RYRO14

iTrader: (1)

LOL you have 7 post. Trifecta isnt as bad as most uneducated people like you think, Trifecta has a lot of options like the combo tunes which gives people the options of increased fuel pressure, control of the wastegate, fan controls and cat warm-up delete with an HP Tuners tune on top of it as well as the switchable tunes that are hidden from GM Tech2's. On the other hand, HP Tuners is great and has great tuners, but HP Tuners lacks some important tables for the LNF. I made 306whp and 368wtq at 22 PSI so my Trifecta tune couldnt have been bad. Both are good options, Trifecta is good if no close tuners exist and HP Tuners is good if you are close to a good tuner like I am.

blucavvy

so the number of posts i have on this site is what makes or breaks my understanding of tuning? keep dreaming buddy. there is life and knowledge outside of css.net! who woulda thunk?

also your 300+ whp does not mean you have a great tune. maybe it was acceptable. if it was, awesome for you. that doesn't mean it was good.

and it's amazing that you have nothing to say to the a/f comment's i've made.

you send out some scanner basically that can't read a/f ratio's (which by the way is a very integral part of tuning ANY vehicle) and tune based off the mod's that people tell you they have. that's a mail order tune to the damn T buddy. and no offense but, mail order tune's are cheap crap.

every car is going to react differently to every modification. what you guys do is generic. and for that i suppose it serves it's purpose.

but i digress. i'm not going to get into some e dick swinging contest with you. anyone with any common sense can look at what i've said and understand y trifecta tune's are inferior to hptuning.

good day.

sponge14

You keep saying that Trifecta can't read AF ratios when our cars have Wideband O2 sensors that the Trifecta CAN read. You are either wrong, or not explaining yourself correctly.

blucavvy

if you do the mail order tune that trifecta sends you their "datalogger", ask them if it comes with a hookup for a wideband so that they can read your a/f ratio when they're "tuning".

they base their tune on fuel trims and adjust from their. they don't account for pe.

can they make large amounts of hp with their "tune's". sure. anybody with any basic knowledge can do that.

can they make a tune safe and reliable? i wouldn't trust it in my car that's for damn sure.

as i said, for what it is, i suppose it's effective. but it is in no way even close to dyno tuning or real street tuning.

efactor

iTrader: (2)

well that blows my ***** then for him. ......j/k well I'm doing GMS1+HPTuner which should be better.

RYRO14

iTrader: (1)

Vinces AFR arent bad at all if it is making that kind of power, especially if I dynoed 240whp stock on the same dyno. it is a tad richer than what most HP Tuners tune at, but it is because he tunes a tad more conservative. I have had both an HP Tuners tune and Trifecta and both are pretty similar in power levels. Trifecta isnt a mail order tune, it is customized per car because you can datalog the tune. A mail order tune would be more like Superchips, not Trifecta.

RYRO14

iTrader: (1)

Ummm LNF's come with factory widebands......

Wangspeed

iTrader: (2)

You really don't know what you're talking about here. The LNF has a factory wideband, and you tell it target a/f. Unless you've got an aftermarket intake, hitting the target a/f is easy.

sponge14

I already addressed that in my post, but you keep ignoring what I have said to you to keep pushing your agenda. Our cars do have a wideband O2 Sensor from the factory... What part of driving with the data logger hooked up do you have an issue with? Why is the fact that the car is moving and not on a big roller drum make it worse?

I am not saying that a dyno tune, HP, or ZZP are any worse than Trifecta, you for some reason have it in your old school head that you have to strap your car to the drums to make a tune reliable.

Seeing how people on here have had Trifecta tunes on their cars here for a combined hundreds of thousands of miles, without a single documented failure due to tuning, to come on here and say it's not safe and reliable is complete BS. So you, "think," that it's not as reliable, and that's fine, some people are stubborn to where they won't listen to anyone tell them to the contrary. But don't come in a thread and proclaim that another tune is better than Trifecta because of reliability issues, when you can not show me ONE single car that has been damaged by his tunes

I would trust someone like Trifecta and Vince with my car over some redneck shop with a dyno that has seen maybe 1 Cobalt SS in his life, and that was at a dealership one day on accident...

sponge14

hmm... You were shooting off rapid fire posts up until you read about how we have wideband O2's... Care to man up and admit you are wrong?