Omni GLH. The origional SRT-4

Honestly I can see you making 400 HP pushing the blower to it's absolute limits with other mods to accent the insane blower setup. It'l be close though, and most likely not possible on pump gas.

Either say good luck on your venture into the limits of the eaton blower.

 

Get a Lysolm SC (basically a whipple) rework the bearings, BOOM 35 psi. Get some pistons, and a head gasket and your set

 

Thanks, that is what I intend to do. Build up what I have (keeping the little Eaton) if that is not enough then nothing lost really. sell the blower and go all turbo or what ever. I dont think I would go with another S/C. others feel there is alot there in the Eaton still. only time will tell.

FYI - Gale Banks has LSJ built motors that will do 350 to 450 depending on what you throw at it. the only problem is they want $37,000 for this motor. After I picked up my jaw from the floor I just could not stop laughing. They say they are selling to people making dune buggies and rock crawler for competition for the power to weight ratio. I told him well if I am paying 20K for a car and 37K for a motor then I may as well just buy a corvette. he didnt know what to say. then he said that hopefully as they sell more the price will come down.

 

good luck on your build, that's the exactly what i wanted to do with car... (only i don't have the money to do it that quickly )... let us know how it turns out.

 

Well I am in the same boat. I building from the ground up to make good use of the HP I have now. Starting with tires and mounts and control arm bushings. then I will move back into the HP race. (although I did buy the 2.8 pulley) then exhaust and intake. then out comes the motor for major build up. do it once! by then We will see what else is out there and what others have found with these stock pistons. maybe they are good enough stock, but nobody say they are or have substantial proof. we'll see.

 

lol with a 450 cfm single screw super charger? cmon now,

Say u dont go turbo, why not a whipple? or something larger, a larger supercharger wont need as much boost to achieve the same horsepower levels.

but regardless, the head work, valve train, pistons, and everything else will be rather costly.

and p.s. at the crank, this engine, with a new head gasket, light valve train work, and normal mods like exhaust etc, u can sistain 400-450 hp , the piston and compression ratios are the main concern. knock would suck

 

Well I'm not saying it can be done this way. GMPerformance, JBP, and Banks Power says this is the way to go. You may have to throw the book away about turbos and low compression pistons on this one. But when it comes to building I will be sure they know it is to be a daily driver and I want to run pump gas. Everything they have told me as lead me to believe it is on high octane pump gas. Oh and up here we get 91 Octane every where.

and if I have to spend money on a whipple I will spend money on a turbo. Whipple will do nothing for our cars. that has been well documented already with tests. Selection of the right turbo is important. sure you can go big but big is not always better. yeah it maybe easier to get big boost out of it but you have to consider spooling time (turbo lag).

Why not work with what you got first if professional builders are telling you too. dont you think they would love to just sell you a turbo kit for $3000 and kick it out the door VS. selling you $3000 of engine work and they have to put labour into over a period of two months? and so far you have 2 companies and the manufacturer saying this is the way to go.

I understand your arguments, I would normally agree. It says all of this info. in the GM build book for a 400HP build which confused me at first with what GM says now. but that was for the 2.2. Don't know what the difference would be.

GM has an build article. If you have not read the article be open enough to check it out. The build takes you from 205 to over 300HP. What did they do? pistons, cams and timing. that is it other than a cosmetic clean up. put stage 2 on? put 60LBS injectors with a 2.5In pulley and HPTUNE may give you close to 400HP. now port & polish head and blower and you may have 450HP. I say you may have that power, the professional builders "Yep that'll do'er". anyway that is the way I will go. Oh as far as problems with heat build up with 2.5" pulley, people are already doing it and they are not experiencing problems. in fact a turbo builds up more heat than a S/C. you just have the intercooler so you do the same for a s/c. the bonus is our plumbing is air to water and is in place and easy to upgrade the heat exchanger.

again do it your way and I will do it mine. I have consider turbo before I planned to do it this way. but thanks for all your info. keep it comin' cause I am taking notes. I will ask all these questions before handing over the motor to someone to build.

Oh and those who think I upset or arguing or am closed minded, not at all. I asked for constructive criticism which most are providing. to all of you I say thanks. I will be printing out this whole thread when it dies off.

Got something to say but dont want it here, then feel free to PM Me.

 

Single Screw? it is a centrifigal S/C with two rotors! the 450cfm is of the third generation S/C. Our cars are 5th generation and put out more.

also you have to consider setup stock with the 3.4 pully GM can get over 300HP with just cams, timing gears, pistons, injectors, PCM reflash and that is it. 300HP. now we have proven to get 80HP or more with modifications (intake, exhaust, 60lbs injectors, 2.5" pulley, port and polish the supercharger, HPTUNE) on stock internals. The modified engine will respond better to get to 400HP+ and with head work you will perhaps get 450HP.

 

GM told me that the supercharger will last for a long time and handle alot of power

 

alright the whole setup of my car is to make a sleeper that looks and sounds as stock as possible

you can tell the difference in the sound of a supercharger and a turbo

yea you might save some money going the 3g turbo route but how much horsepower will you get out of that??? and what other supporting mods will you need with a turbo?

my way is
pistons
cams
cam gears
and head

total cost in between 5-7g after shipping and labor

adding over 75 horsepower and getting closer to owning corvettes pricless

and yea 450 horse is a lot but thats about the limit for a daily driver

and for traction of course bwoody traction bars new tires and always lean back on hp tuners

hp tuners can program how much boost you want at what time... 50% until 5000 rpm then 100% definately can setup a way for no more traction problems

 

LOL you dont have a centri blower, you have a roots blower.

 

shhhh he's in his own world dude. Lets just say he's right and we're wrong leave it at that.

 

in his own world with his centrifugal blower equipped cobalt


let me give you a little easy lesson so you don't make this mistake again in the future.

your basic centrifugal blower http://www.superchargersonline.com/i...percharger.jpg

your basic roots blower
http://www.turbochargedpower.com/ima...ots%20Type.jpg


lots of mechanical differences, same basic idea, but very different. BTW a twin screw is far more like a roots blower than a centri blower is. So in a way, you are wrong and he was close to being right.

 

i know how a centrifugal, roots and twinscrew work. wtf are you talking about?

 

o lol. i thought u were talking to me. sorry.

 

First off I wanted your constructive critism. I got it. I listened to what you have said and I gave my point of view on it. I am researching what you believe is the best way now. I did look into it before a little but since I had a target HP and pistons need to be changed anyway to support that much HP then I would work with what I had as recommended by many builders. So I am currently looking at it again but it doesnt make sense to me as far as cost to do it. maybe you could come up with a price list for me and support your claims.

but as far as your attitude with saying let it go, pretend he is right .... and other BS. get lost with that ****. I didnt start any immature **** with you. so I will say this nicely ...... **** off with that ****

just kidding.. but really there is no need to treat me like that. you have stated something but have not really supported your view in anyway. I am trying to see it but it is not adding up so spill it and show the the OBI-WAN.


Oh and as far a terminology I just misread info from CAPA and I see what you guys mean. I dont profress to be the EXPERT ON TUNING cars or something. I told you before I am regurgitating what other companies have told me.

COMMENTS FROM CAPA

The Eaton supercharger is undoubtedly a well engineered product, leading the way in Roots type blower technology. Boost is produced by volume displacement rather than tip speed like a centrifugal blower. The advantage of the Eaton is that it can build boost low in the RPM range - this of course limits the total boost the Eaton will produce 6 - 9psi being about the norm, but check the individual compressor maps to determine maximum pressure output. The Eaton is perfect if bottom end torque is critical to your application.

Here is a nice graphic presentation of the ROOTS blower.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14MaYSMPc1c

 

okay okay sorry. As far as supporting the centi SC swap. I say go for it. Your biggest hurdle with that set up is definately the custom shaft and custom intake manni. But it seems like you will be able to air to air intercool it and keep the laminova. I know eatons are great, but to much credit is being given to them. I dont think that the roots fully compresses all the air. On top of that, the blades dont seem to like intakes. Im not an expert either, but I do know a little hear and there.....

 

absolutely. it is actually amazing that we can get to 18PSI with pulley change. beyond that we go from a 2.8 to a 2.5 to get 2 to 3 lbs difference!? we were supposed to loose efficiency creating boost after 18lbs. correct me if I am wrong but it does seem to be so and defies what we thought we knew.

but come on .... you can PM. Give me a good turbo set-up. I like the HAHN intake. and there is a guy selling exhuaust manifolds on ebay to fit a T-3 to the little ecotec. I believe I would go with HP tuners. lets come up with a system and I just may build it. Waiting for your PM.

 

how much power are you willing to make and are you patient. I ask about your patience because you just cant go all out at once. You gotta start low, maybe 6LB of boost. And boost it up a pound <with proper tuning> once a month. BTW that log style header that you saw on ebay is a great header. But dont expect for it to go past 25 LB of boost on a t3/t4, according to the guy who makes em. I spoke to em a while ago. LOL, PM me what your goals are. Ill help as much as I can.

 

can i say thread jack???

lol just kidding

im learning alot by you guys so keep going

i still want my sc setup but i like learning about a turbo setup

 

And I am on the fence. we will see what they can tell me to get me straightened out and on the right path, their path, since turbo is the way to go. I expect Turbo to reach 400-450HP and to be cheaper than sticking with stock S/C and that the motor is strong (change in pistons) to do it.

Lets get this turbo vs. Supercharger duel finished so we can get back to planning a S/C system (unless that is not the way to go for 450HP)

 

im sure u can get to 450 with a sc too. Im not saying that turbo's are better than SC's. Its just a little more pratical IMO. Instead of cracking the engine open and doin expensive internals, so many things can go wrong, and im a ***** when it comes to cams and adjustable cam gears lol. But if you want a quick spooling 330whp-ish LSJ, that needs no internals done. I'd say go with a Hahn super 20 turbo, hp tuned with 60 LB injectors, intercooled, and turbo back exhaust. Thats definately less than 2 grand right there!

 

trust me that turbo setup would be the way to go for me if thats all the horse i wanted

but even witht the turbo setup the engine needs cracked open to be safe and to get 450 horse

 

regardless, at 450whp, rather no˛, turbo, SC, twincharged, or pulled by hamsters. You have to do the pistons. At 350-370 with a turbo, the need for lower compression will arise one way or the other. But if your turbo's at 300 and spraying a 50 shot then the stock compression should be fine. Its all in how much your putting down vs how you got to that power level. IMO a 350whp lsj would be faster than a 450whp lsj just due to the fact that you will need extensive suspension pieces just to get all that power down!

 

garrett gt28rs


http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob..._472560_15.htm


boda-bing boda-boom, that's the winner.

if you go turbo, i'd suggest that. If you go blower id suggest keeping with a roots style blower, you aren't really gaining much by going centri, just less response. If you went that route you might as well go turbo!