Because most widebands don't display in Lambda, they display gasoline AFR.

 

The aem and the Lc1 both do, just gotta switch the setting.

 

How? I just read over the innovate manuals and am pretty sure you can't program the gauges to display anything other than AFR.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s.../DB_manual.pdf

You can go into the LC1 and change the math to display the AFR for e85 but that's way more effort than its worth just to display the correct numbers, when the ones it already displays serve our purpose perfectly fine.

 

I understand both sides when I first heard 11.5 for E85 it really confused me too.. for the ones out there who didn't already know that you guys made it very clear. To be honest I wasn't crystal clear on it but I am now. lol Thanks

But back to the OP 2.9 should be fine then?

 

You should be better off with e85 and the larger pulley, but I'm gonna bet that you'll be maxing it out before 7k even with a 2.9. You'll probably need to go further up, honestly.

 

Nearest station to me is in Robinson which is about 20 minutes away. If I travel outside of the area (I tend to go north quite a bit), I'm screwed since there are no E85 stations.

 

The biggest downfall with e85 is the availability of it and or how many miles you can get on a tank of it. If you have to travel it can make things a pain in the ass. If you are not the type of person who stays in there area a lot, or near an e85 place etc and are not a tuner I wouldn't recommend e85. If you have the software you can switch between the e85 and 91/93 very easily.

Another thing people can start thinking about doing though is blends. Run a mix of e85 and 93. Another option is e30, etc. This can help with both idc's and gas mileage and in return will still allow you to run more timing then 93, because it obviously has a higher octane rating.

The whole argument with saying 11.5 vs 7.67 etc is stupid in my opinion. Because then some people will assume that if 7.67 is "ok" on e85 that it will be "ok" on regular 91/93 gas too. I just don't like confusing people and I figured that was the least confusing way to say it because e85 is still fairly new to these forums.

Anyway with all of that said, more testing needs to be done in general with blends and e30 in my opinion. I will have more data available soon, but I have a feeling it's going to be better then we are anticipating. The only problem with blends is that it's never going to be exact. For example you can never fill up the exact same amount of each fuel both times. But if you get it fairly close, it shouldn't be that bad. Fill up half a tank with e85, and then fill up half a tank with 91/93. Then when it's out, fill up half a tank with each again and go from there. Again this is stuff I would only recommend to tuners and or people that have the software and think they know what they are doing. This is going to solve some of the issues people are having with cold starts, worse gas mileage and still benefit from running more timing etc.

Anyway to the OP, I highly recommend running e85 and a larger pulley. Start off with whatever you have, stock or a 2.9 etc and run e85 with as much timing as you want/can. If your idc's are fine see if you really feel as if you want/need more power. If you don't problem solved, if you do you're choices are limited. If you're idc's are maxed you can run 98lbers and have a lot of headaches or you can do some other fueling mods to help with them.

I can add this. On 60lbers idc's on e85 maxed out at 6grand. On a 2.7 on e85 idc's were also maxed at 6grand.

In all honesty op, if you are running a 7grand redline on a 2.9 and e85 you should be pretty close, I think you will be able to get away with it. If not, find out where your idc's top out at and set your redline down a little bit until you can get them down with more fueling options etc.

I would honestly rather have a 6500 rpm limit on e85 and the tvs, then have the tvs on 93 octane with a 7grand or 7250 limit.

 

The REASON people report E85 afr in gasoline equivalence is because 99% of people only understand the gasoline AFR and will be confused on a 7.6 lambda reading.

 

My opinion for the OP is go with a larger pulley and e85. More or, maybe at worst the same power, and safer on the engine with less boost.

 

agreed 100%.

 

Just tuned myself with e85 through my wideband reading 14.7 and 11.5 wot switched to e85 on my wide band and it read it right.

 

E85 > meth injection when it comes to octane.

 

E85 is by far better but meth injection can be used WITH e85, especially if it's used more so as water injection for a cooling purpose. You can run both e85 and meth injection and see benefits from the cooling side of things. You can only push timing so far with these cars, at that point it really becomes about where you are running the timing, at what rpm, and how effectively you are doing it. Lower iat2's will be better overall, so use both if you can.

 

Methanol injection is NOT a preferred method of mine. Just sayin

 

Why's that!?.. lol.. nothing like suddenly getting audible knock somewhere in the middle of a 4th gear WOT pull and seeing your afr's shoot into the 13's

 

haha yeah thats why I sold mine there was a safe way to get more timing and cooling it was not meth it was E85

 

Haha, that's exactly why I never plan to use meth on my car. It works great, until something happens and it cuts out when you need it. D:

 

The problem is that meth was being used as an octane booster instead of a cooling mod. People running e85, ESPECIALLY on the m62 should be highly highly interested in water injection now. Same concept but instead of using it to stop knock you are using it to cool down the iat2's. We all know the cooling effects of water against heat and the m62 makes some serious heat with smaller pulleys.

Has anyone experimented with e30 yet or do I have to go fill up with it first lol. I have a feeling 60lber guys could get away with running e30 but I haven't found out yet, like I said it's just a feeling. Anyone else ran a blend yet or e30?

Another thing to add is that meth injection is extremely safe if you don't increase timing to the point that you will knock if you don't have it, but then again that does take all of the fun out of it. More people need to be looking towards water injection now that they are on e85. It's all about keeping the heat down as much as possible.

 

I sold my meth kit and went E85 after my meth fuse popped in 3rd gear and I watched my interceptor show 4+ * of knock and the AFRs go into the high 12's. Thank God I was only commanding 23* and was running a bit rich on the meth tune

 

We're here to have fun..

 

Hey bud.

Talking about IAT2 is major ricer talk on this forum. Nobody should do. EVER!

Here is why...

I think E85 is the best cooling mod to run on a SC'd engine. But E85 does not produce as low of IAT2s as say Meth injection. Does that make meth injection better? Hell no!!!

IAT2s are measure by the MAP sensor located on the top left side of the IM. When you spray meth injection it is sprayed into the SC and through the IM. Its safe the say that the vapors from the Meth Injection pass by the MAP sensors effecting is IAT2s readings.

E85 is injected into the cylider head after the IM and after the MAP sensor. So its cooling benefits are not shown in IAT2s.

Exhaust Gas Temps (EGTs) is a much better tool to compare how well the entire combustion process is performing. Not just how well the Map sensor is being cooled inside the IM.

That is my thoughts anyway...

 

I see your logic and I am not knocking on e85 in the least. However the hotter the air going into the motor the less power you will make and the higher your egt's are going to be. Cool the intake charge and your motor will like you more. Yes e85 will produce lower cyl temps then 91/93, but that still doesn't mean that the initial air going into the motor isn't to hot. Cool the air before the supercharger and it won't be as hot after it's through it. Iat2's still matter and more and more people will see this when they think they can run 2.6 pulleys and 80lbers with e85 on m62's without any cooling mods. Is it possible yes, are your iat2's going to be sky high and make you retard timing, absolutely. In the end, water injection is still a good idea.

 

Good points.

I wish there was a way to measure the temp of the charged air and E85 mixture before it enters the combustion chamber VS the charged air and Meth injection and premuim fuel before it enters the combustion chamber.

The point I am trying to make is that I believe E85 produces lower numbers at that point.

Not with a proper tune for E85. You can change the IAT2 adder table appropriately for E85 so the tune does not pulley timing for higher IAT2s. I don't have my tune on me but I moved the timing retard one column to the right. So instead of pulling -1* at 148 (or whatever) it pulls -1 at 162 (or whatever).

True. I am holding on to my Meth kit just in case I want to try to run both Meth and E85. I would probably run a very small nozzle with basic washer fluid. Just to keep the blower and IM cool during long pulls.

 

Not with a proper tune for E85. You can change the IAT2 adder table appropriately for E85 so the tune does not pulley timing for higher IAT2s. I don't have my tune on me but I moved the timing retard one column to the right. So instead of pulling -1* at 148 (or whatever) it pulls -1 at 162 (or whatever).

Still the fact is that the air going into the motor is getting extremely hot. Even with a proper working IC pump, the iat2's on a small pulley can exceed 180 degrees on multiple pulls which is going to cause cyl temps and egt's to be a lot higher. Yes you can modify the tables to not pull as much timing, but why do it the dangerous way when you should just be solving the issue at hand the right way? To much heat will break things plain and simple. Without knowing your cyl temps and or egt's it's not a risk I would be willing to take. I run e85 all the time though, on 60s, on 80s, on the tvs on the the m62, etc. I absolutely love e85, however we still need to cool the intake charge.

 

I see what your getting at.

BUT!!!! lol

Just because your Map sensor is cool does not mean that everything is hunky dory in the engine. I could install a heat sync and cooling fan on top of the MAP sensor and have sub ambient temps but what does that prove?

I would be willing to bet that Car A:

TVS w/ 2.9"
Full Exhaust - Header/DP/Cat-back
IAT2s - 150* (Estimated @ WOT)

is much safer then the Car B:

TVS w/ 2.9"
Stock Exhaust
Meth Injection
IAT2s - 130* (Estimated @ WOT)

Right?

This is why talking about IAT2s on this forum is fail. Its fun to throw out flashy low numbers but it is important to find out what those numbers mean and what they are actually saying about your setup.

Anyone who watches their IAT2s knows that they are consistently inconsistent.

But good discussion.