which header and dp combo?
01-02-2011, 12:09 PM
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which header and dp combo?
im currently running ottp stage 2 and am in the process of getting a new header and dp combo. im looking at the badmab, ottp, zzp, vibrant setups. leaning towards the badmab because of its price. any thoughts?
01-02-2011, 01:04 PM
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01-02-2011, 02:04 PM
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I have always been a fan of the OTT guys. One of my good friends (alteiry54) did a lot of business with them and he spoke highly of their products and service.
With that being said, BADMAB seems like a very quality product as well, especially when it is backed by a lifetime warranty and what seems to be excellent customer service on this forum.
Nonetheless, it is nice to see you are only interested in Supporting Vendors Products. It is important and beneficial for us to purchase from these companies in order to keep them happy while producing new, innovative products. which ever you choose, I am sure you will be satisfied. And if not, the companies you have listed will do everything to make it right
Just my .2
With that being said, BADMAB seems like a very quality product as well, especially when it is backed by a lifetime warranty and what seems to be excellent customer service on this forum.
Nonetheless, it is nice to see you are only interested in Supporting Vendors Products. It is important and beneficial for us to purchase from these companies in order to keep them happy while producing new, innovative products. which ever you choose, I am sure you will be satisfied. And if not, the companies you have listed will do everything to make it right
Just my .2
01-02-2011, 03:24 PM
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VIBRANT VIBRANT VIBRANT FTMFW!!!!!!!! my brother has vibrant on his cobalt and it sounds completely badass, never throws any codes, ive never heard of it but it will throw a code if you buy a downpipe with no bung for the sensor on the cat, then it will but thats with any downpipe.
01-02-2011, 06:54 PM
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some one posted up on the occ that tube length has a big impact on performance..
pasted quote from...davep from the occ
Generally a shorty header helps peak power at higher rpm, usually at the expense of low end torque. A long tube header generally helps bottom end torque at the expense of peak high rpm power. A mid length, tries to be all things to all people, which usually means it does neither well.
The other consideration is tube diameter. The general wisdom seems to lean towards a 1.625" dia tube for N.A engines, and 1.75" for boosted engines. That said, Maven (on GMSC) installed a 1.75" dia long tube ZZP on his 2.2, and the butt dyno is impressed. (Don't think he has dyno'd it yet.)
OTTP have a longer tube header that is unproven at the moment, (which is what I think John was referring too.) OTTP were going to produce a 1.625" tube dia version for Maven, but it never happened, for what ever reason.
Vibrant have the longest (pardon the pun) track record for long tube headers. Nobody has trash talked them, so I assume they must be happy.
For a NA application, I would suggest long tube. Go for fattening up the torque curve, and pick up some top end as a bonus.
One little aspect that many people forget, is that if they increase top end power (usually at higher rpm as well,) at the expense of mid range torque, they actually risk making their car slower. The higher the peak power rpm, the higher the shift points, which also increases the rpm drop between shifts. If you narrow the power band, by going with headers that emphasize peak power, you may actually "fall off" the power band on upshifts unless you rev the living hell out of your engine, which also means you fall off the power band, but in this case "before" you shift.
What you really want is a set of headers that broadens the power band, to optimize the transmission ratios. The trans ratios are a fixed item. You can't change them (affordably), so it makes sense to design the engine power curve to work best the the existing transmission ratios.
As an aside, there is some Dick on ss.net talking about building a fire breathing 200 horse 2.2 NA engine. (See the L61 forum.) All he is doing is building "Dyno Queen". The car, if it ever runs, will be fast as hell, until he has to change gears. Then he will be blown away by a Volkswagon Beetle
part 2
Two additional considerations are tube length and collector design.
A "tuned" exhaust header has the tube lengths calculated to scavenge the cylinders at an optimum rpm. To keep it simple, sonic pulses reverberate up and down the exhaust tube as the exhaust valve opens and closes. The length of the tube can control these pulses so that at a specific rpm, the pulse is bouncing back from the exhaust valve leaving a low pressure area behind it, just as the exhaust valve is opening, helping to scavenge the cylinder. (Whew! what a mouthful.)
I doubt any affordable aftermarket exhaust header is accurately "tuned" for tube length for a specific application. A LSJ, FE5, L61, and LAP all have different power bands, and although an exhaust header can be common to all four, ideally each would have different tuned length headers. And if your engine is modified, then the power band is different again possibly requiring a different tube length.
The other consideration is a 4 into 1 system vs a 4 into 2 into 1 system. Again it is acknowledged that at 4-1 system is more beneficial at high rpm, while a 4-2-1 system can be beneficial to mid range.
As you can see, it ain't simple. Maven is touting the ZZP long tube. The Vibrant is a 4-2-1 system that I think would be better for street use. The OTTP is a dark horse. In the end, it may come down to cost and availability
pasted quote from...davep from the occ
Generally a shorty header helps peak power at higher rpm, usually at the expense of low end torque. A long tube header generally helps bottom end torque at the expense of peak high rpm power. A mid length, tries to be all things to all people, which usually means it does neither well.
The other consideration is tube diameter. The general wisdom seems to lean towards a 1.625" dia tube for N.A engines, and 1.75" for boosted engines. That said, Maven (on GMSC) installed a 1.75" dia long tube ZZP on his 2.2, and the butt dyno is impressed. (Don't think he has dyno'd it yet.)
OTTP have a longer tube header that is unproven at the moment, (which is what I think John was referring too.) OTTP were going to produce a 1.625" tube dia version for Maven, but it never happened, for what ever reason.
Vibrant have the longest (pardon the pun) track record for long tube headers. Nobody has trash talked them, so I assume they must be happy.
For a NA application, I would suggest long tube. Go for fattening up the torque curve, and pick up some top end as a bonus.
One little aspect that many people forget, is that if they increase top end power (usually at higher rpm as well,) at the expense of mid range torque, they actually risk making their car slower. The higher the peak power rpm, the higher the shift points, which also increases the rpm drop between shifts. If you narrow the power band, by going with headers that emphasize peak power, you may actually "fall off" the power band on upshifts unless you rev the living hell out of your engine, which also means you fall off the power band, but in this case "before" you shift.
What you really want is a set of headers that broadens the power band, to optimize the transmission ratios. The trans ratios are a fixed item. You can't change them (affordably), so it makes sense to design the engine power curve to work best the the existing transmission ratios.
As an aside, there is some Dick on ss.net talking about building a fire breathing 200 horse 2.2 NA engine. (See the L61 forum.) All he is doing is building "Dyno Queen". The car, if it ever runs, will be fast as hell, until he has to change gears. Then he will be blown away by a Volkswagon Beetle
part 2
Two additional considerations are tube length and collector design.
A "tuned" exhaust header has the tube lengths calculated to scavenge the cylinders at an optimum rpm. To keep it simple, sonic pulses reverberate up and down the exhaust tube as the exhaust valve opens and closes. The length of the tube can control these pulses so that at a specific rpm, the pulse is bouncing back from the exhaust valve leaving a low pressure area behind it, just as the exhaust valve is opening, helping to scavenge the cylinder. (Whew! what a mouthful.)
I doubt any affordable aftermarket exhaust header is accurately "tuned" for tube length for a specific application. A LSJ, FE5, L61, and LAP all have different power bands, and although an exhaust header can be common to all four, ideally each would have different tuned length headers. And if your engine is modified, then the power band is different again possibly requiring a different tube length.
The other consideration is a 4 into 1 system vs a 4 into 2 into 1 system. Again it is acknowledged that at 4-1 system is more beneficial at high rpm, while a 4-2-1 system can be beneficial to mid range.
As you can see, it ain't simple. Maven is touting the ZZP long tube. The Vibrant is a 4-2-1 system that I think would be better for street use. The OTTP is a dark horse. In the end, it may come down to cost and availability
01-02-2011, 07:35 PM
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I will be going with the catted zzp longtube here shortly and getting rid of my shorty.
Though im curious how loud that longtube with a cat is going to be over my shorty with the stock downpipe and the slp loudmouth catback
Honestly any of the headers mentioned here you will be happy with.
Ive heard good things about the badmab as well as the zzp. I havent heard much on the ottp yet but that doesnt mean anything.
Just decide what you want from your car and then choose the header you want according to those goals.
Though im curious how loud that longtube with a cat is going to be over my shorty with the stock downpipe and the slp loudmouth catback
Honestly any of the headers mentioned here you will be happy with.
Ive heard good things about the badmab as well as the zzp. I havent heard much on the ottp yet but that doesnt mean anything.
Just decide what you want from your car and then choose the header you want according to those goals.
01-02-2011, 09:36 PM
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make the car louder? im gonna be running hopefully the badmab header i have an ottp catless dp and gmpp. but ill be going to 2.5 piping and a stock muffler. my stock header sucks. but how much will the sound change?
01-02-2011, 09:50 PM
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well i have stock catback with magnaflow muffler 3 inch zzp catless dp and badmab. the downpipe REALLY woke the car up sound and performance wise they header added some sound but added some hps as well.
