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Help understanding all the HEAT EXCHANGERS (information thread)

2.0L LSJ Performance Tech 205hp Supercharged SS tuner version. 200 lb-ft of torque.

Help understanding all the HEAT EXCHANGERS (information thread)

Old 08-25-2008, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CBodnar View Post
both are heat exchangers. you can run the big or small one with the stock h/e or separately.

the bigger one with my experience is more coolant and you get lower iat's. also you mean you bought dual-pass and then added on the small cx h/e? not really sure what your trying to say.
The smaller CX loops the coolant inside of it, hence the exit and entrance on the one side. Because of this the coolant hits more surface area and in my experience (I've tried both units) the smaller CX has low IATs by about 5 degrees on average.
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Old 08-25-2008, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CBodnar View Post
both are heat exchangers. you can run the big or small one with the stock h/e or separately.

the bigger one with my experience is more coolant and you get lower iat's. also you mean you bought dual-pass and then added on the small cx h/e? not really sure what your trying to say.
i already have the dual pass intercooler endplate installed. what i'm referring to is the smaller cx racing heat exchanger being a dual-pass unit, meaning the inlet and outlet are on the same side, and the coolant makes 2 passes of air before going to the IM.

in this case, i'm asking if more coolant = cooler coolant... as it's only getting one pass of air. the smaller one getting less coolant but more air..

Originally Posted by fast98 View Post
The smaller CX loops the coolant inside of it, hence the exit and entrance on the one side. Because of this the coolant hits more surface area and in my experience (I've tried both units) the smaller CX has low IATs by about 5 degrees on average.

that's exactly what i was referring to. what iat's were you seeing big vs small?
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Tennpenn83 View Post
i already have the dual pass intercooler endplate installed. what i'm referring to is the smaller cx racing heat exchanger being a dual-pass unit, meaning the inlet and outlet are on the same side, and the coolant makes 2 passes of air before going to the IM.

in this case, i'm asking if more coolant = cooler coolant... as it's only getting one pass of air. the smaller one getting less coolant but more air..




that's exactly what i was referring to. what iat's were you seeing big vs small?
a 5 degree difference on the same day and car. The actual iats are mod specific, iat1 61 degrees, 88 degree iat2 after a 1-3 run with the small one.
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Old 08-26-2008, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by fast98 View Post
a 5 degree difference on the same day and car. The actual iats are mod specific, iat1 61 degrees, 88 degree iat2 after a 1-3 run with the small one.
what mods were on the car mentioned?

car is a 2006 ION Redline

engine mods are gm stg 2 (42.5) injectors, 2.8" pulley, K&N Typhoon CAI, ls4 throttle body, dual-pass intercooler endplate with option B, cxracing dual-pass heat exchanger, zzp mid-length header and downpipe, stock cat-back with magnaflow muffler, ngk bkr7e's at .035" and wicked tuned to 11.6 commanded afr

i would like to feel that i have bought the right one... lol

i dyno'd recently with 95* ambient air temp and with all the mods above except the heat exchanger to 249whp and 225wtq. i can only imagine how much heat makes a difference. the first one was the best at 249, the second was 247 and the third was 244... major heatsoak (hence what got me to buy the heat exchanger)
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Old 08-26-2008, 12:56 AM
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Small CXR is basically the same as the C/A one, only without the integrated tabs. I like my C/A H/E for $200, including everything down to the braided hoses.
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Old 08-26-2008, 10:22 PM
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Great write up Bodnar and thanks for all the recommendations to use my how-to guide. Btw my car is the 2nd link on the ebay links!!!
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:07 PM
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This has some great information in it. I learned a few things. One question, if I run the GM dual pass endplate, and the zzpHE in parallel with the stock HE can I run a 2.8 with the GM tune? Or will I need 60 lb injectors and custom tune still to run the 2.8?
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CobaltSSilver View Post
This has some great information in it. I learned a few things. One question, if I run the GM dual pass endplate, and the zzpHE in parallel with the stock HE can I run a 2.8 with the GM tune? Or will I need 60 lb injectors and custom tune still to run the 2.8?
You are still gunna want 60's and a tune.
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by fast98 View Post
You are still gunna want 60's and a tune.
Is that because it will lean out? What about me being at 5280ft above sea level in Denver CO? Also with the intake temps down doesn't that keep me out of trouble or does it just improve performance?
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:25 PM
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will the cobra 1 heat exchanger work for my cobalt ss/sc jus as well as the cx
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by blazinbaltss View Post
will the cobra 1 heat exchanger work for my cobalt ss/sc jus as well as the cx
yes.

Originally Posted by CobaltSSilver View Post
This has some great information in it. I learned a few things. One question, if I run the GM dual pass endplate, and the zzpHE in parallel with the stock HE can I run a 2.8 with the GM tune? Or will I need 60 lb injectors and custom tune still to run the 2.8?
yes you can run 2.8 with gm tune. there are many people running 2.8 with gm stage 2 tune. from what i know of on this site there are 2 people who have a had engine problems one that was running 2.85 and one that ran 2.80 and then the dealership fixed there engine(clearly he put gm stage 2 pulley when he went back to his dealership.

most people will say it is best to get a tune and 60lb injectors. if your worried about warranty you could get 2.8 and if you ever did have problems put back stage2 pulley and go back to the dealership.

the question... is 2.8 pulley safe to run on gm stage 2 tune? it all depends on the car and where you live. many 100 + run it fine and haven't had a problems. 2 have had problems. so you will have to find out how many run it and how many have had problems then you can figure out if it is worth the risk for you.

my mod's are in sig. maybe my car is a freak or just like some of the 2.8 pulley cars running gm stage 2 tune completely fine no problems. i decided to spray nitrous into the mix and used it a lot and also race my car a decent amount. not abuse it but just normal driving it hard. car is still fine (knock on wood) 23k + miles so far

Last edited by CBodnar; 08-27-2008 at 03:30 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by CBodnar View Post
yes.



yes you can run 2.8 with gm tune. there are many people running 2.8 with gm stage 2 tune. from what i know of on this site there are 2 people who have a had engine problems one that was running 2.85 and one that ran 2.80 and then the dealership fixed there engine(clearly he put gm stage 2 pulley when he went back to his dealership.

most people will say it is best to get a tune and 60lb injectors. if your worried about warranty you could get 2.8 and if you ever did have problems put back stage2 pulley and go back to the dealership.

the question... is 2.8 pulley safe to run on gm stage 2 tune? it all depends on the car and where you live. many 100 + run it fine and haven't had a problems. 2 have had problems. so you will have to find out how many run it and how many have had problems then you can figure out if it is worth the risk for you.

my mod's are in sig. maybe my car is a freak or just like some of the 2.8 pulley cars running gm stage 2 tune completely fine no problems. i decided to spray nitrous into the mix and used it a lot and also race my car a decent amount. not abuse it but just normal driving it hard. car is still fine (knock on wood) 23k + miles so far
Thanks for the info amigo. One thing I do love about this forum is that most folks are cool and even answer my question twice over. You have been a big help.
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CobaltSSilver View Post
Thanks for the info amigo. One thing I do love about this forum is that most folks are cool and even answer my question twice over. You have been a big help.
not a problem. that is what i like to hear
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:11 PM
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While you may be able to get away with it, it's just not safe. Idc's are way to high on that setup.
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:15 PM
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i gotta follow up on this... Nice write up!
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by fast98 View Post
While you may be able to get away with it, it's just not safe. Idc's are way to high on that setup.
Even with large HE in parallel and say add in Meth/water and say the GM or CA dual-pass endplate. It is running on the lean side in your opinion is what I take from it....decisions....decisions....we'll see.
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CobaltSSilver View Post
Even with large HE in parallel and say add in Meth/water and say the GM or CA dual-pass endplate. It is running on the lean side in your opinion is what I take from it....decisions....decisions....we'll see.
Yes it can run lean.
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by fast98 View Post
Yes it can run lean.
So 42 lbs even with a custom tune can run lean past 6500 rpm is what I gather all around.
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Old 08-27-2008, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CobaltSSilver View Post
So 42 lbs even with a custom tune can run lean past 6500 rpm is what I gather all around.
yes. it will run static on most cars or go crazy. however it will still work. injectors may not just like you however people still do it. i doubt your going to be running the car crazy anyways

pm box is full so i sent you this...
not sure about meth. i am not a meth guy. also yeah i would say it is over kill however some people may say different. all depends how much money you want to spend.
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Old 08-27-2008, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CBodnar View Post
yes. it will run static on most cars or go crazy. however it will still work. injectors may not just like you however people still do it. i doubt your going to be running the car crazy anyways

pm box is full so i sent you this...
not sure about meth. i am not a meth guy. also yeah i would say it is over kill however some people may say different. all depends how much money you want to spend.

I just cleared my inbox...sorry...
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Old 08-28-2008, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by CobaltSSilver View Post
So 42 lbs even with a custom tune can run lean past 6500 rpm is what I gather all around.

You can run a 2.8 on the GM stage II 42 lb injectors. You will need a custom tune to do it safely and to get the most gain out of it. I have been running the 2.8 on the stage II injectors for a while now. you just have to keep an eye on your pulse width and injector duty cycle (IDC's) while tuning.

I am still on a 7k rpm redline and I also have a wideband installed. But, like cbodnar said, some cars like it, some don't. mine is doing just fine on the setup without even going over 80%IDC. some cars freak out and end up going over 100%.

your safest bet is to go with 60's but you can run 42's.
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Tennpenn83 View Post
You can run a 2.8 on the GM stage II 42 lb injectors. You will need a custom tune to do it safely and to get the most gain out of it. I have been running the 2.8 on the stage II injectors for a while now. you just have to keep an eye on your pulse width and injector duty cycle (IDC's) while tuning.

I am still on a 7k rpm redline and I also have a wideband installed. But, like cbodnar said, some cars like it, some don't. mine is doing just fine on the setup without even going over 80%IDC. some cars freak out and end up going over 100%.

your safest bet is to go with 60's but you can run 42's.
Sounds like I need to buy HPtuners equipment, grab a binary file from Intense-Racing and install the 60lb injectors.....that's what I am thinking about doing but I don't know if it will be worth the money....I will probably be better off running GM S2 Tune, Injectors Nate's 2.9 pulley, then install zzp HE, AEM CAI and header/downpipe.

Better bang for buck maybe?
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:16 PM
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We stock hptuners and can email you a tune file also, we also have the lowest price around on injectors.
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by CobaltSSilver View Post
Sounds like I need to buy HPtuners equipment, grab a binary file from Intense-Racing and install the 60lb injectors.....that's what I am thinking about doing but I don't know if it will be worth the money....I will probably be better off running GM S2 Tune, Injectors Nate's 2.9 pulley, then install zzp HE, AEM CAI and header/downpipe.

Better bang for buck maybe?
better bang for your buck would be 60lb injectors + cx h/e + filter on stock airbox + 2.7 or 2.8 pulley and then tuning it by yourself if you can if not getting it tuned.

otherwise if you care about warranty and such or want something safe that will work also gm stg2 + 2.9 + filter + cx h/e + whatever else you may want to add.

cx h/e you can put on for less than $199 bucks following flashbrandon's guide as posted in first page on this thread. looks awesome and drops iat's

g/l with whatever you pick
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Old 08-28-2008, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CBodnar View Post
better bang for your buck would be 60lb injectors + cx h/e + filter on stock airbox + 2.7 or 2.8 pulley and then tuning it by yourself if you can if not getting it tuned.

otherwise if you care about warranty and such or want something safe that will work also gm stg2 + 2.9 + filter + cx h/e + whatever else you may want to add.

cx h/e you can put on for less than $199 bucks following flashbrandon's guide as posted in first page on this thread. looks awesome and drops iat's

g/l with whatever you pick
What if I have the GM update for the CAI? Why should I run with the stock airbox? I know intense mentions the CEL for improper MAF placement but I am told that is fixed on my ride with an updated flash from GM.
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