Intake manifold
10-02-2008, 11:27 PM
#204
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I dont know about saying those are dead motors. LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6, LS7. Correct me if I am wrong, but those are all based on the same blocks, just bored out, better flowing heads, etc......
I dont know about saying those are dead motors. LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6, LS7. Correct me if I am wrong, but those are all based on the same blocks, just bored out, better flowing heads, etc......
The poster may have a point though, I mean the LSJ was used in what? The Cobalt and the Redline, for a few years only. Chances are development beyond this point, of which there is very little to begin with, is going to be very scarce.........
That doesnt make it a dead engine though, it has clearly showed its potential for power, well atleast after you throw out the Supercharger, and slap on the turbo............
I dont know about saying those are dead motors. LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6, LS7. Correct me if I am wrong, but those are all based on the same blocks, just bored out, better flowing heads, etc......
The poster may have a point though, I mean the LSJ was used in what? The Cobalt and the Redline, for a few years only. Chances are development beyond this point, of which there is very little to begin with, is going to be very scarce.........
That doesnt make it a dead engine though, it has clearly showed its potential for power, well atleast after you throw out the Supercharger, and slap on the turbo............
Last edited by runriot; 10-02-2008 at 11:27 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
10-02-2008, 11:45 PM
#205
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I dont know about saying those are dead motors. LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6, LS7. Correct me if I am wrong, but those are all based on the same blocks, just bored out, better flowing heads, etc......
The poster may have a point though, I mean the LSJ was used in what? The Cobalt and the Redline, for a few years only. Chances are development beyond this point, of which there is very little to begin with, is going to be very scarce.........
That doesnt make it a dead engine though, it has clearly showed its potential for power, well atleast after you throw out the Supercharger, and slap on the turbo............
Second, the LNF, LE5, LSJ, and whatever the code is for the 2.2 is all based off the same block as well. Just different strokes, slightly different bore on the LE5, and different heads.
So technically, the LSJ nor the LS1 is dead, especially considering all the engines that are similar to each other all have swappable parts with minimal custom work.
10-03-2008, 12:17 AM
#206
okay, first, he was being sarcastic.
Second, the LNF, LE5, LSJ, and whatever the code is for the 2.2 is all based off the same block as well. Just different strokes, slightly different bore on the LE5, and different heads.
So technically, the LSJ nor the LS1 is dead, especially considering all the engines that are similar to each other all have swappable parts with minimal custom work.
Second, the LNF, LE5, LSJ, and whatever the code is for the 2.2 is all based off the same block as well. Just different strokes, slightly different bore on the LE5, and different heads.
So technically, the LSJ nor the LS1 is dead, especially considering all the engines that are similar to each other all have swappable parts with minimal custom work.
the lsj engine was turboed in saab cars for i think 4 years or so
10-03-2008, 12:31 AM
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Perhaps I should have been more specific. SUPERCHARED LSJ was only used in the Cobalt and ION. Therfore , parts for that specific motor are going to be far and few. Since they dont use that setup anymore, its highly unlikly that we will be seeing very many parts for it in years to come, atleast for its specific applicaiton. (SUPERCHARGED) So while I am not defending the poster that said the JSJ is a dead motor, nor do I agree, he certainly does have a valid point, thats all I was trying to saying.
10-03-2008, 12:32 AM
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I've been wanting to make an intake with a bell liquid to air intercooler for a while now, but it is too expensive to make it properly. I work in the design department of a custom fabrication shop that specializes in sheetmetal fabrication. The cost of the Hahn turbo intake manifold is probably about what it would cost me just for labor.
Rebels design looks terrible in terms of flow. Would it be better than stock, yes, but that isn't saying much. You would need to get the core farther from where the runners start in order to get even and less turbulent air distribution. Not to mention you would want a smooth transition not a flat plate with holes.
Rebels design looks terrible in terms of flow. Would it be better than stock, yes, but that isn't saying much. You would need to get the core farther from where the runners start in order to get even and less turbulent air distribution. Not to mention you would want a smooth transition not a flat plate with holes.
10-03-2008, 11:57 AM
#209
I've been wanting to make an intake with a bell liquid to air intercooler for a while now, but it is too expensive to make it properly. I work in the design department of a custom fabrication shop that specializes in sheetmetal fabrication. The cost of the Hahn turbo intake manifold is probably about what it would cost me just for labor.
Rebels design looks terrible in terms of flow. Would it be better than stock, yes, but that isn't saying much. You would need to get the core farther from where the runners start in order to get even and less turbulent air distribution. Not to mention you would want a smooth transition not a flat plate with holes.
Rebels design looks terrible in terms of flow. Would it be better than stock, yes, but that isn't saying much. You would need to get the core farther from where the runners start in order to get even and less turbulent air distribution. Not to mention you would want a smooth transition not a flat plate with holes.
Im sure there are better designs out there that would cost twice as much. As a buyer would you want an IM that accounts for 10% of the cost of your vehicle? Esp since a majority of owners will never modify their vehicles from its stock form or if they do they will go with GMS2.
10-03-2008, 12:11 PM
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And that is why I don't understand why everyone is so quick to critize the stock manifold. I'm sure the GM Engineers explored many different options when designing the intake manifold for the LSJ.
Im sure there are better designs out there that would cost twice as much. As a buyer would you want an IM that accounts for 10% of the cost of your vehicle? Esp since a majority of owners will never modify their vehicles from its stock form or if they do they will go with GMS2.
Im sure there are better designs out there that would cost twice as much. As a buyer would you want an IM that accounts for 10% of the cost of your vehicle? Esp since a majority of owners will never modify their vehicles from its stock form or if they do they will go with GMS2.
Between that and a ported head, I think I would be more than satisfied with the cars performance.......
10-03-2008, 12:30 PM
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And that is why I don't understand why everyone is so quick to critize the stock manifold. I'm sure the GM Engineers explored many different options when designing the intake manifold for the LSJ.
Im sure there are better designs out there that would cost twice as much. As a buyer would you want an IM that accounts for 10% of the cost of your vehicle? Esp since a majority of owners will never modify their vehicles from its stock form or if they do they will go with GMS2.
Im sure there are better designs out there that would cost twice as much. As a buyer would you want an IM that accounts for 10% of the cost of your vehicle? Esp since a majority of owners will never modify their vehicles from its stock form or if they do they will go with GMS2.
Even as a 'one off' custom build, I can have one done (and out the door) for only a few hundred more than a used stocker.
10-03-2008, 01:08 PM
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Can you show us some pics, or dyno numbers or give us more details?
10-03-2008, 06:24 PM
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And that is why I don't understand why everyone is so quick to critize the stock manifold. I'm sure the GM Engineers explored many different options when designing the intake manifold for the LSJ.
Im sure there are better designs out there that would cost twice as much. As a buyer would you want an IM that accounts for 10% of the cost of your vehicle? Esp since a majority of owners will never modify their vehicles from its stock form or if they do they will go with GMS2.
Im sure there are better designs out there that would cost twice as much. As a buyer would you want an IM that accounts for 10% of the cost of your vehicle? Esp since a majority of owners will never modify their vehicles from its stock form or if they do they will go with GMS2.
What did you do for the port on the head between cyl 2 and 3? I noticed it was cut out of the manifold.
Last edited by Cobalt_Supercharged; 10-03-2008 at 06:24 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
10-03-2008, 06:31 PM
#214
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couldn't you cut out the laminovas and fab in an ic, like the one he installed here, in that location? What about the top part where the blower seems to push air pretty much right into a wall. What could you do to that?
10-03-2008, 08:17 PM
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No, no and no.
First... I won't give away my ideas until I have the testing and revisions finished.
Second... don't be a dyno groupie....
I originally intended to have this made for myself... not to make money with it. Therefore, I have nothing to prove.
Third... see first point. There are a select few who have been given a few details... but they've been supporting me with this project since the beginning.
First... I won't give away my ideas until I have the testing and revisions finished.
Second... don't be a dyno groupie....
I originally intended to have this made for myself... not to make money with it. Therefore, I have nothing to prove.
Third... see first point. There are a select few who have been given a few details... but they've been supporting me with this project since the beginning.
10-03-2008, 08:33 PM
#216
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No, no and no.
First... I won't give away my ideas until I have the testing and revisions finished.
Second... don't be a dyno groupie....
I originally intended to have this made for myself... not to make money with it. Therefore, I have nothing to prove.
Third... see first point. There are a select few who have been given a few details... but they've been supporting me with this project since the beginning.
First... I won't give away my ideas until I have the testing and revisions finished.
Second... don't be a dyno groupie....
I originally intended to have this made for myself... not to make money with it. Therefore, I have nothing to prove.
Third... see first point. There are a select few who have been given a few details... but they've been supporting me with this project since the beginning.
As for being a dyno groupie, there is no point in adding money into an intake unless the outcome is either
A.) More Power
B.) Significantly better cooling.....
and showing a cars before and after dyno numbers is usually a pretty good indication as to weather it actually works or not.
10-03-2008, 08:55 PM
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well I dont want to be an ass, as you seem to be one of the more educated people on this forum, but telling us that you have a design, is pointless to us then.......if you plan on sharing at some point, great, we all would appreciate it, if not than your wasting our time teasing us......
As for being a dyno groupie, there is no point in adding money into an intake unless the outcome is either
A.) More Power
B.) Significantly better cooling.....
and showing a cars before and after dyno numbers is usually a pretty good indication as to weather it actually works or not.
As for being a dyno groupie, there is no point in adding money into an intake unless the outcome is either
A.) More Power
B.) Significantly better cooling.....
and showing a cars before and after dyno numbers is usually a pretty good indication as to weather it actually works or not.
Yes... one day I will be sharing it... but not before it's finished.
There are too many idiots on this forum that will screw up their car by try to build one without proper training and planning.
About the dyno part... you don't need a dyno to gauge power.... and defiantly don't need one to measure cooling. And again... I built this for myself, and I have nothing to prove.... as long as I'm satisfied, I'm happy.
10-03-2008, 09:01 PM
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Yeah, but if I was putting that much time into it I would like a better flow path and I don't like the idea of dissecting the stock manifold. The stock intake manifold isn't a cheap piece to start with or replace if you mess up. From GM they are about $600 or $700 IIRC.
10-03-2008, 10:58 PM
#219
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true, if your going to do it. do it right. are you thinking about something sort of like rebels but with a better design post intercooler? That flat wall doesn't look like its great for flow.
10-04-2008, 10:25 AM
#220
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Yeah, but if I was putting that much time into it I would like a better flow path and I don't like the idea of dissecting the stock manifold. The stock intake manifold isn't a cheap piece to start with or replace if you mess up. From GM they are about $600 or $700 IIRC.
I cut my intake manifold apart, port and polished it, had it welded back together and couldnt be happier with the results.
10-04-2008, 12:41 PM
#221
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Do you have actual proof of the results, or just seat of the pants feel? How are your temps? This is most likly the route I will be going, ported intake, ported head, done!
10-04-2008, 04:29 PM
#223
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Thats exactly what we all need, and someone to offer that service....... I think Overthetop was going to offer it, but I dont think its up with pricing yet????
10-05-2008, 11:12 AM
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I'll find out on wensday and post my results. freakta hows your vacation. Can you come to Fred's on wensday in the morning I'll be getting my car tuned! Call me....