You are lugging the engine down!!! That scenario is harder on the engine than a WOT pass!!!!!!!

DOWNSHIFT!

For the record, i get part throttle KR but no WOT KR, this is do to the AE mode being to rich and causing rich KR!! Think about it for a minute

 

Well I reviewed intense's recommended specs and I have the sw1 switch off. In their printed instructions it says to have all the switches off...But on their website it says sw1 should be on. I'm going to go put sw1 on and set it back to c1 and see how that works. Also we are supposed to do the boost bypass with this right?

Thanks,

Dan

Also I got 2 of the same sides of velcro on my maft (2 of the hard sides none of the soft)...gonna have to bake a trip to wally world lol. But their customer service is great. Got a shirt, a windshield sticker and 2 small stickers just for having to wait for parts.

 

I'm not really lugging at all, it doesn't bog or anything. I was cruising today at about 80mph in 5 going up a slight incline and it went up to 5 and then steadily dropped till it got back to 0. No KR at WOT except for the last 300rpm till redline I've seen 1.9 or so and when I shift to 4th back up to 2 and then down again

 

Yeah Great, But we are not talking about the engine in it's stock form are we. We have overboosted the motor and over driven the SC to make more HP... Thus the engine design and control are beyond their regular fields and there is no way that you can actually believe that reling of a knock retard system is in any form "Good Tuning".

You are not going to win this debate as you are simply wrong.

 

Relying on KR is nothing big. Want to know why. GM builds a car that will easily and reliably last 100,000 miles under moderate abuse. In the stock form they program in a pretty sensitive knock algorithm. You see as much as 5 degrees coming out in certain instances. Then you do stuff to the engine that brings in much more air and at the same time much more fuel. You watch your knock count again...it's the almost exactly the same as before. Want to know how you do this? You drive my Red Line or most other properly tuned SS/SCs. The KR system doesn't do the tuning, you do. It just helps when you have reached limits.

Give up on the argument. I saw KR in my stock 2002 Saturn SL2.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of car do you drive? And don't say a Porshe because I GUARANTEE you will see KR on that car stock. Even the best can't get rid of it.

 

Oh, Great. Yes a wonderful design, Wopee!

N E Ways, Here is Me just cause you asked...

2002 Mazda Protege 5
1986 Porsche 944 SC
2006 911S


A Knock sensor is meant to be a failsafe. A last ditch at saving a motor from detonation. If it was tuned so well, it should never see knock.

 

Boy am I glad you read my post. Whew.

If you own a 911S, why don't you have a Car Domain page for that too? Come on, I want to look at nice cars, not Mazda station-wagons and slow old Porshes.

 

Here is the problem with people who really don't know. When confronted they switch to personal attacks rather then acting all grown up, civil and discussing the matter like an adult.

Here, I'll bring my post way down to your level so you can feel comfortable.. "Poor Baby, This isn't recess."

I really wish you'd either prove you point rather than wasting what could have been a productive post with some BS jealousy in reference to my cars.

If you kept up with the times you would have read my post on it.

I have selected my car, paid for it (Well A Loan as you can imagine) it's being built and is to be delivered in May 2006.

In ref to your post of the Knock Sensor. You posted that you saw it woking on the redline even when it was stock.. and now also after upping the boost. So my point still stands, what a great system.

You claim that it's tuned, yet say in the same breath that it hits knock under load and further that it is designed like that then say it's perfect and fine.

Like, ******* WHAT?

Bi-Polar?

 

Then GM or any other manufacturer must not have good tuning. It takes a lot of mods to eliminate KR on a gtp.. So from the factory and up until they are pretty modded the knock sensor is still used. Like said elsewhere...a tune is given. The knock sensor keeps the engine from destroying itself. Your not ever really going to get a car with no knock. .

And for the record...I'm showing no knock at all. But I'm still getting weird part throttle surging/hiccups... My plugs are gapped at .030 should I take them down? Also my settings are sw1 on sw2,3,4 of base C wot 1. Or do the stumbles go away after the tables stabilize?

Laslty i really dont know if it feels quicker...though if it does I really think it isd all in the top end.

 

And my point still stands, you will see KR on every car. PERIOD.

It's just a matter of how tightly the sensor was set up to detect it and whether the computer cares about it or not.

 

It's 91 in the owners manual because that's the highest you can get in California! We're lucky on the east coast with 93!

 

Bullshit!
It recommends 91 but you CAN (if you wish or had no toher choice) even run 87 octane in the LSJ
Maybe YOU should read the owners manual
Here's what the 2006 REdline/Cobalt owners manual states verbatim:
The 2005 version is basically identical except for the reference to the 2.4L engine

Don't quote the owners manual if you've never opened it up yourself!
WopOnTour

Edit: Oh I see someone has already called you on your bullshit
nm then
Keep up the good work and maybe you can be banned here too (already a done deal at the Redline Forums)
I'd tell you to GROW UP but I see you're only 20 so I know it wont do any good...

 

OK OK im not here to start fights i got 2 things to say


YES! there is a thing such as spark knock all you did was define it spark knock IS pre ignition and in vehicles with carbs it can cause it to continue to run when ignition is off ( i have done this on my truck due to bad timing)

and in my owners manual it says a min of 91 octane only the 2.4 can run on 87 due to the fact that its not forcing compressed air and gas into the cylinders

 

this kit also comes with a maf bs thing right? if possible wouldnt it be better to reeflash the computer?

 

The symptom you are describing is generally referred to as "run on" and yes it is techncally a form of pre-ignition, (since techncially after you shut OFF your ignition there should be none) often caused by combustion chamber hot spots (carbon) and of course the availablity of sufficient fuel to burn. It was/is quite common in older carbuerated applications, true- but it can happen with any engine give the right conditions. It's just that "Wet Intake" designs such as carbs and TBI are more likely to have sufficent unburned fuel in the intake that can lead to run-on is all, but a leaky injector can cause it too Assuming you have an LSJ equipped car (Cobalt or Redline) THEN NO it doesnt say that...
Go back and Read it again Kid
WOT

 

Knock (as stated above) is when something other than the spark plug ignites the fuel charge inside the cylinder. When a hot spot ignites one side of the charge and then the spark plug ignites the other the two flame fronts collide. Knock sensors listen for an audible noise that is tuned to that frequency and will detect Knock long before you hear it. If you HEAR audible knocking your motor is in big trouble (and I don't care what the manual says).

We have yet to see the programming in the LSJ PCM (but we are working on it) but in the 3800 world the PCM can account for up to 15 degrees of Knock by pulling timing to cool the cylinders down. This is called Knock Retard (retards timing to reduce knock). As stated above many cars from the factory have knock and this is usually do to slag or imperfect material used to make the cyilnder heads. Little jaggies get hotter than the cylinder walls and become the spark point instead of the plug.

There are three ways to reduce knock. The first is to do modifications that will allow the motor to breath better thereby getting cooler air in and hot exhaust out quicker. The second is to add higher octane. Higher octane fuel takes a hotter temperature to ignite thereby reducing the likely hood that a hotspot ignites the fuel charge before the spark plug. The third (available to boosted vehicles) is to run less boost or timing thereby reducing compression heat and lowering cyilnder temps (the timing retard is what the PCM does via the KR sensors).

While no knock is considered the best for performance and health of the motor, the PCM can easily handle small amounts of KR. This is because GM cannot tune a mass produced car for every driving situation. In AZ or CA for example carss will run in much hotter temps. In low elevation areas such as NJ or FL cars will run with much more boost because the air is more dense. The KR system should NOT be used as a crutch but it is there to handle a wide range of environmental factors.

In the 3800 world we have often stated that up to 3 or 4 degrees of KR on a hot day is considered safe however if your above that then you want to rectify the problem causing the knock (either move up to 94 octane from 91 or lower your boost, etc...)

BTW: Every degree of octane you move up usually gets rid of 1 degree of KR (or if your not getting any KR allows you to advance timing 1 degree). Which is why a lot of people use race gas (100 octane or higher) at the track. It allows for 0 KR with room to add boost or timing.

Hope this makes sense.

 

^^^ Thanks for putting that up, It's basically what I was trying to say but you made it somehow simpler! #1

 

So playing the settings has anyone used anyhting that runs better than what they say.

 

Wha? That makes no sense. Maybe reword?

 

No, it's not at all. You were saying there should be 0 KR and he is saying that a small degree of KR is acceptable. There is a difference.

 

So whats considered acceptable? If I go WOT in 2nd till redline and shift to 3rd and let off right after the KR goes up to 5 and the back to 0. Is that considered normal?

 

I don't know if it's considered normal, but the two cars I've seen the kit in have done that with two different instrumentation methods. Sometimes you see a few degrees of KR just off idle too.

 

You want to find out for sure, add some unleaded race gas, if KR goes away, it's real. If not, it's false! I can make mine hit a couple of degrees by rocking the motor!

 

I tried 25 bucks worth of 91 octane with a bottle of octane boost and it didn't make any difference. What else can I do to stop this? Or do I just gotta wait till the PCM can be programed?

 

Octane boost gave you 91.3 octane!! Woo hoo! Get some REAL race gas or a bottle of Toroco! Then report back.