06blackg85ss

iTrader: (1)

yeah for a s/c setup it's worthless.... but a bigger H.E. like the lfp should dhow some gains

vandy0419

Okay, thats all I wanted to get out there and see what your guys' opinion was on this. Hell, twincharge, the guy on the RL forums, doing a twincharged set up he still had 330whp without doing a intercooler.

If I had the money, I would have loved to do a twincharge set up with a remote mount turbo system (STS generic kit) which would leave no need for intercooler usually.

selfinfliction

uhh iat1's are almost identical to ambient temps on our cars, i sort of expected people to know what i meant... my bad

money? pffft i'm going to be using leftover parts to temporarily plumb it in until i know it works or not. and i already have an extra intercooler, my plans are to see if it drops the temps down 25ish degrees and if it does, then i'm spraying it with co2. then possibly misting and co2. i think it will work like a charm personally, but you never know until you try and i'm pretty curious

CTCOBALTSSS

That's not even right Badg1rl. You can't leave us hanging like that......

vandy0419

$50 says it doesn't drop the IAT2 more than 5 degrees, if that, with just the air to air intercooler and I want proof of it. Have you even done a search on here for "intercooler supercharge"? You will find numerous threads of people attacking the idea because it doesn't do crap, oh well...you'll probably be the first one to try it and prove the idea as a bad one.

And no, ambient is not IAT1...depending on your intake ambient and be higher or less than IAT1 depending on the efficiency of the intake and when cruising on a highway and having winds rushing in going 80 on a CAI, it will be colder than standing still in 90 degree weather. So IAT1 is nothing close to being able to compare to IAT1...so if someone has a short ram, sitting at a stop light with all that heat from the engine (est 180*) and it is 85* outside, the intake will be sucking in 85* temps? There is really no true point of cooling the air prior to the supercharger, it is the point to cool it AFTER the supercharger.

NoRemorse

Ok, so if IAT1 is ambiant (just clarifying for everyone) The tempeture air you bring in from the intake is = to IAT1 (which is messured at the MAF) So now your going to bring air in at ambaint temp, and then cool it with the same temperature, and expect the IAT1 to drop? Because if you don't drop IAT1 in this case, your not doing anything (assuming that IAT1 is messured after the intercooler as it should be)

Your claiming that you can take in air at temp x, and cool it with temp x. Well, because x -x = 0, there is no difference in temps, and therefore NO cooling. Look up newtons law of cooling about the time it takes mass to cool depending on tempeture deltas (differances). It is just not possible. So if the air entering the SC is the same as you started, how the hell does it lower IAT2s? It just dosn't make sense!! At most it is just a bottle neck in the intake system!

vandy0419

Hey, NoRemorse, I think...if he does it right, the MAF sensor will be after the intercooler because our cars are touchy of where the sensor lies...

SpecialK

If they are using an air to air setup. (Typical FMIC setup) then I don't see the temps dropping much, if at all. But so many people here seem to forget that the Cobalt has a air to water untercooler. (Aka a heat exchanger) NOw a larger Heat Exchanger will do wonders for lowering the intake temps at the point where it enters the intake and then into the cylinders, unlike a A2A FMIC like you see on a turbo system. I'm doubtful, but I;m not gonna call anyoune an idiot for trying. Especially if they have spare parts and free time.

vandy0419

See post #5 and pic in #6...thats my HE...

selfinfliction

uhhh you want to make that bet official? people can attack whatever ideas they want to, they are all making assumptions just as i am making an assumption. except i've got the gall to actually try it before i knock it.

and yes yes ambients are almost always identical to iat1's when moving. if they are not, you need to take a look at your intake. anyone with half a brain understands that iat's will go up when sitting still, i guess i expected too much from the internet once again.

there is a reason to cool the air before the supercharger, does your car put out the same horsepower on a dyno in 95 degree weather, as it does in 55 degree weather? from your perspective you say that it doesn't matter what the air temperatures are coming into the blower, the car will run the same. which is far from true.

i guess all of those water injection kits that spray BEFORE the blower don't do any good at all, because it cools the air BEFORE the blower. the only reason i unhooked my water injection was because i didn't like the idea of spraying it into the blower.

Cobalt_Supercharged

I'm not sure an air to air FMIC it will help much before the s/c, but if you were to plumb it after the s/c you would show a decrease in IAT2 after extended hard driving when compared to the stock liquid to air. Unfortunatly it might create lag and lower the air velocity in the process.

Please let us know your your results when you get them.

I'm betting that the FMIC in badg1rl's car is for a twincharge setup.

vandy0419

How can you plumb a intercooler like this on our kind of superchargers? Now I have seen a lotus with this done, but the s/c is upside down with a TMIC. The s/c go directly on the air to water intercooler and then directly to the intake manifold.

Yes, if you read the other posts you will see that badg1rl's isn't for a s/c only set up. It is for either a twincharge setup or a s/c to turbo conversion.

vandy0419

You got the gall? I got *****, much less notice mine is plural. And yes, I would like to make that bet. Don't forget...proof...that means if you are so confident in this, drive up from Cincy to Centerville and prove it.

Holy crap...nice try at making a dig...yawn....but in case you didn't realize, you just pointed out you made a false comment earlier...obviously the one thinking your FMIC will work is what I can expect to see from the internet. Ask any major tuner on here other than me, ask FAST06SS, djt81185 or any other credible source.

Well lets see, that is a 40 degree difference...you won't touch that.

Water will cool it better than the intercooler...and Rob's water injection system isn't just water, it is a mix of fluids that will dispate the heat more. Also...how much psi drop is your intercooler rated at? There flat out isn't enough pressure of the airflow to put it through safely the intercooler....whatever though.

selfinfliction

yeah sure, and to prove your exchanger works so well why don't you drive to my town, wash and wax my car, and that will prove it


did i say that i would?


i missed the part where i mentioned rob's injection system too. could you show me that? i was talking about any car, including the one that i had on my car LAST YEAR, and never said anything about meth/alky injection.

not enough airflow going into the blower... hmm i guess a 0.4-0.5psi decrease in pressure would be too much for my poor little engine to deal with @ 15psi not every ic is extremely restrictive, did you think i am putting a 32" x 7" x 3.5" ic on the car?

anyways you do what you want, i'll be doing what i want

vandy0419

ha, you put your damn FMIC on and I'll get my HE and we'll run and see whats up...then you can wash my car, actually I'll give you $5 to wash your car off from my exhaust fumes, ha ha ha

vs.

You were comparing 40 degree temperature differences.

You laugh because your at 15psi like you're laughing at me? Hell, I never saw 15psi! ha ha ha, shortly after I got my car I was at 18psi, now 21psi...hmm...maybe I should just trash my HE idea and go for a FMIC since you think it will do so well and I'm at 21psi...wait, that small of a pulley, a FMIC won't do **** for the heat I am creating with that small of a pulley!


So...lets just stop the damn talking until your results are in.

selfinfliction

that's what most mfr's measure pressure drop at for intercoolers. i'm pushing more than 15

guess i expected too much from the internet once again. i gotta stop doing that

vandy0419

Guess I expected too much out of someone from Cincy to know what they are talking about...you don't have **** for psi BEFORE THE DAMN supercharger! IT IS ALL ******* COMPRESSED IN THE SUPERCHARGER so take the little strength of airflow and minus that for what your intercooler is rated at...

The turbo is before the intercooler and the turbo is where all the boost is built up, not before the forced induction, no matter which way you go, turbo, supercharger, anything.

selfinfliction

great assupmtion, except i'm not from cinci, nor do i live there

you do not have to have boost to run it through an intercooler, the sole reason an intercooler is run between the turbo and the intake manifold is because the turbo will superheat the air, it's not like a supercharger, the supercharger doesn't even dream of getting as hot as a turbo because it doesn't have exhaust running through the same device like a turbo. and besides the less pressure the intercooler operates at, the less restrictive they are. restriction of the air compounds with psi levels in the ic.

for the pressure argument, people keep saying there no pressure blah blah blah.... the supercharger creates vacuum, it doesn't rely on gravity to feed itself, nor could it do it's job properly without creating vacuum.

but i'm sure you are aware of that ... or not

A New Convert

Christ. This place is Clubgp all over again.

The pre-blower FMIC has been tried, and with a cryo spray WILL do something. It wont be worth the money, and it will barely be worth the weight, but it will do something. However on any given day it will just be a restriction. If you can cool the air down before it enters the blower it will improve power. Its just a simple fact. The issue is trying to cool down ambient tempt air with ambient air. Theres no delta, so there is no cooling. If you spray with CO2/N20 or to a lesser extent water, then it will do something, but only while you are spraying.

A/A intercoolers have been used on the L67 in Oz. Its overly expensive, and overly complicated, but if road racing or autocross is your thing then it might be worth your time.

BC

NoRemorse

Well you are right about one thing, the vacuum created creates a pressure difference from one end of the IC to the other (just as pressure would) but the fact still remains that you can not cool air with air of the same temperature, it just dosn't work.

Just like you yourself stated, a turbo makes the air hot, that's why it goes AFTER the turbo. A upercharger gets air hot, that's why we have an 'IC' AFTER the supercharger. If the air hasn't been heated yet by some form of compressor, there is nothing to cool! Why do you think you will never see a FMIC on a N/A car, because it dosn't do jack, just like your proposing.

I am really sorry, but yout theory is full of holes, but you will find that out soon enough I guess.

selfinfliction

that's what the plan is for. an fmic with fewer fins so it doesn't interfere with the normal cooling of the car. split the co2 line into a large and small fogger, large one for the ic and small one for the heat exchanger. the ic will also have water, so we can snowflake it, and the second fogger is to make sure the exchanger and radiator stay cold while the ic is frozen and blocking the airflow. i'm not expecting the ic to work all of these magical powers by itself

who knows how well it will actually work, but damn man it's very little money and will be one ****** cool contraption.

Cobalt_Supercharged

You would have to remove the current intake manifold and create a bracket to hold the S/C. Then you would have to create a plate to mount to the S/C discharge and route it to the FMIC. Then create a custom intake manifold and route the FMIC discharge to it. Too much for what it is worth.

A New Convert

Or a box witha plat in the middle. The top goes under the blower, the bottom goes over a custom manifold. Either case its only worth the trouble for a track car.


BC

NoRemorse

Not even then.

I am fairly certain our lamnova core 'after coolers' are more effecient, so swapping it with a pure intercooler set up would hurt ya.

vandy0419

Actually our stock intercoolers are very efficient. If you talk with anyone else with the same design, like someone with a GTP, you are damn lucky to see a 100 degree difference between IAT1 and IAT2 with boosting much at all. Many people with LSJs only see a difference on average of 60-80 degrees unless they have a very small pulley.