Legion

I think this fact alone totally escaped 90% of the people who spent enough time to even read the thread. Thank you.

Now honestly I didn't post this to ask how, I know how powertrain and drivetrain wise it's very little difference from a Mustang GT build, I just have a transverse instead of driveshaft concept, which is not all that hard to know where the limits and differences layout.

To run the blower it'll take approximately 255 engine HP; a 8K rpm, 2.4L stroked and bored LSJ, with higher compression pistons, opened up Valvetrain with heavy weight springs, full 3in exhaust with 1 -3/4 in primary's, 3in intake, and 160lb/hr injectors if it doesn't turn the supercharger I would be amazed.

To debunk the whole incompatible issue, ^ this above explains how I'm powering the supercharger, before I mentioned how the snout is custom aligned, different sizes (lengths) so it will fit the stock beltline, and of course the pulley system is no hassle at all switching rib count etc... Since the car responds well to a LS4 TB, I don't have any work I don't have mapped out but the suspension, rim selection, supercharger adapter plate (nothing else will change but that plate since the stock cooling system with some minor upgrading is all that's required when it's mated to the engine already), and a hood that may need to allow extra clearence and heat extraction.

Stuff that is besides the adapter plate, a preference hunt.

I didn't ask, I said I'm doing. Evo's deserve to understand there are other forced induction 4 cylinders than the STi to fear. I believe the supremacy of the Cobalt Chassis presents a tempting possessive lure I want to scratch and see if it goes deeper, if it flops you will all know this is a bad idea and save a ton of money not trying right?

Good talk...

euthanasia

iTrader: (1)

You will soon find out its gonna be more then just a adapter plate to make this work. Don't ask me how I know lol.

selfinfliction

'eh what the hell do you know?

this guy is GOING to do it!

Frew

iTrader: (9)

I cant honestly say that we ALL know that superchargers are not engine specific, but think about it this way a 2.3l blower on a 4 banger is like putting a 200 shot on a 4 banger

euthanasia

iTrader: (1)

I agree I know nothing when it comes to supercharger swaps . To bad the Vortech and Turbonetics deal didnt work out

Legion

I get that perfectly, it'll be a built motor, far more than the average built LSJ. It'll handle the load, it won't be max potential spec either so it should hold a long time.

Back to the why not twin-charged-turbo and other equation.

1) Turbo's are less maintenance than a supercharger? Really, is that why the spark plugs, let alone oil are always going to look grim? It's a fact heat from a Turbo is extreme, I cannot mount a system to cool the boost I want on a street legal-ready level in any scenario I can imagine without suffering immensely during 100+ summers, and Turbo's never repeat performance, each run could be better or worse.

2) Turbo's in winter are just affected by Engine load, true. However A tap of the throttle would deliver alot more unstable power than a consistant pulley governed Supercharger, I'm not stupid, my Mustang is Turbo, any instability on the tight windy roads back home would devastate the five hill climbs I would make going anywhere, it's a liability I don't need/want on my DD.

3) Twin-Charging, like turbo charging it generates alot of boost, and unlike a plain setup with a turbo is really fast. Issues however are this, high output twin setups require matching that's extremely expensive, cooling becomes a mechainical nightmare, and it's not uncommon to make 60lbs of boost and not make any more power than the 28lb boost regular setups. Heat and a few other factors are the primary cost of that boost level, and the Cobalt would really not handle that high a boost.

4) The cooling system will fail? Well bone stock yes, some specific portions of the system are not good enough, however the system and it's concept as a whole will work with my projected modifications which will tackle all of the problems. I'm well aware of how it works and have a respectable understanding of the math that defines it. Give me a break not everything is being put on display right now, there are alot of parts in this project I'm going to have to look at the stock setup and evaluate the goal in mind and adapt the car.

5) To answer your questions, I can speculate alot of dynamics working right, but at the end of the day I'm not sure how the Cobalt will translate the large Supercharger (for it's class). I plan on starting with a large pulley and working down to the goaline after establishing an effective governing baseline for how it takes it. Then work out some of the simpler bugs. I really don't care if it blows up after a run down the track, if it accomplishes the goal it did what I set out to do. Blowing up before that is unacceptable. I've built or helped build a handful of quad and high triple digit dyno destroyers. It's going to test every theory I've ever learned on big cars to take this Cobalt into a unfamiliar level alot of people don't care for. The trade off is a car which goes from cruise to monster in a blink of an eye. And proving a supercharger can accomplish such a task would be worth it's effort.

selfinfliction

you sir have just validated my theory that you are a complete *******!

good luck with your 600hp cobalt

Chevycobaltss3

iTrader: (2)

you know wut im gonna do im just gonna throw a m62 on the lsj............................................... .................................................. ................










ah hahahahaha lmao, actually what OP should do is buy himself tvs and a leaf blower and put them on there and make a adapter plate to where both will have there own intake and make some serious power.

but OP truly your idea, is a idea it can be worked out to work, and it can be worked out to fuc* some **** out, I am not here to cause drama in your thread but i am here saying you might accomplich it but youll lose more money putting into then just slapping a tvs or the new lysholm onto it. I know you said moneys not a issue, and since its not, sleeve the block, put some pistons and rods in, polish the crank and cry the bitch or just get it made into a balanced billet hardened still. Get some head work done and possibly some more exaust..

Legion

Really what is the point of these last two posts? I mean the 2nd makes some sense, not sure where it's going, but name calling, wow must be one of the grouchy types.

If it helps anyone understand read the following,

Drift a car that's turbo'ed, and one that's NA/Supercharged, and you will know exactly why I favour the supercharger in my choice. I'll give you that alot of my experience with cars is with Rotary 13B and 20B, or SBF/C (small block ford/chevy), with considerable time on Literbikes.

If your reading this like anyone probably has considered, what I'm saying now is blueprint phase, I have the rails and goals figured out on the road thru the project. But like any project I havn't come up to the parts I can say if I know it'll go well or not. About 90% of the project is in the bag and meets all expectations I can put together. 10% is limits of parts like the cooling system, the ability of the little parts no one's ever tested etc.

Come at me with this rediculous you'll never do it "stuff" with something other than a .fail blog entry please. I am going to find alot of the project hitting a wall in some way/ at sometime, it's expected, but I have got alot of experience behind me that comes down to just retrofitting, custom building, or modifying the car to meet goals. If you want to hear about it as it goes on, cool, don't come to my thread and tell me it won't work.

I'm not dissing the guys come here sayin wow rediculous the car will blow up, but do you think dissing me is worth anything? You waste air. Consider the 240SX guys who built a 1040hp car didn't just wake up and say "I'm going to go fast now"? No, so hurry up and wait with everyone else it's a work in progress.

Tennpenn83

While i admire your dedication to this project, I honestly don't think you'll come anywhere close to 600whp.

That being said, I wish you the best of luck in your goals. I genuinely hope that you can prove us wrong.

Chevycobaltss3

iTrader: (2)

^^^ first off my post was actually meaning do it if you feel like doing it so dont go off by stating somthing like you did.... Like so!!!! oh man, this car did this and this car did that. **** if you want power i can easily swap a lsx into a syclone or swap a 2jz titan in a damn geo metro and call it a day and make tons of power , i mean anything can be done its just the money So if you wanna spend your hard earned cash then do it, and understand its your own fault if it dont go the way you want it to. Be smart build the engine!!!! !!!!!!!

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

a 2.3 has been put on a lsj already and op listen to euthanasia he is probably one of the if not the best fabricators on this board

selfinfliction

the OP is much better, cause he has figured out that he needs a bracket to make it work and states he is "going" to do it!

zfissette

iTrader: (5)

seriously, dont be jackasses. 600hp is completely doable its always been a question of money. if you spend enough, you get the number. will he need a fully girdled 2.4 from zzp and a blower made for a v8? sure. will he end up running 100 octane with every cooling mod anyones ever heard of? probably. will he smoke the tires like a teenagers first drag car? of course. but the fact is, if you have the cash, you can have the number. turbos are not magic, boost is boost, if you can hit a number with a turbo, you can hit it with a supercharger, its just a matter of wanting to spend the extra cash. hell, if this were me, trying to do what hes trying to do, i would be shitcanning the stock intercooler and using a vortech supercharger intended for the mustang and hooking it up to the turbos intake and then planing on two stages of fuel injection and e85. the centrifical supercharger will be much more sedate around town but pour on the boost at higher rpm, limiting the burden on the motor until your at wot. anything can be done with enough cash, the issue is always do you have enough. hell drop in a corvette rear end, turn the motor so it faces front to back and it would even hook up. be the first supercharged lsj to run 10s. be the street hero that ends up on the cover of a magazine.

Frew

iTrader: (9)

Didn't say it hasn't or couldn't be done

Legion

Thanks for placing that out there. I wanted first off to say Chevycobaltss3 I didn't intend that post to be negative at you but selfinfliction. I fully intend to build one of the toughest LSJ's to ever roll out.

I apalogize if I seem to attack some statements, it's how I write. The Vortech or Procharger (ATI) type superchargers are awesome for redline racers, but on the street they are loud idlers. In that build I would go for a 9-10k rpm redline and shoot higher power because it would be more stable, but keeping it legal would be somewhat more challenging.

It would just be great to set a record most Evo's would be daunted to attempt. I don't see the Cobalt I'm building having alot of ammo for the strip, but on track, I want it to be the name to beat. Not arrogant at all about it, it's a challenge. We'll see, if I get the Cobalt Medal of Supercharged Honor, or the Cobalt Certification of most wasted dollars it'll still be fun to see what we can do and learn with it.

BNS06Mike

iTrader: (1)

DO WORK SON
id liek to see this happen and am in a bit of envy toward you because i no longer make the money where i could just go blow it on things like this

tylerjclance

iTrader: (7)

Do it.
Prove everyone wrong.


Waste of money for the power goals? Yes.. but that's not his concern. He's doing something different, let him.
It's his car, his wallet.

If he succeeds then awesome more power to him.


I wish you luck with your endeavor.

Legion

Appreciate it, it will be next year when we start to see a different breed of Cobalt hit the road, it'll be flashes of what it should look like complete, but it should be done by the end of 2012, it's a transmission delivery holding me back the most.

RooTBeeR

iTrader: (4)

the world will end by then!

that sux though, no way to have a company custom make you that trans and get it sooner?

umrdyldo

iTrader: (1)

First time he starts the car, a black hole will open. End of the Earth.

Just kidding OP. I'd love to see you do this and wish I had money to throw at a project like this.

I'm a chicken **** and can't bring myself to install a CAI

Legion

I could but the price easily triples, and the budget is the budget, Man can do anything, a man with a wife can do nothing without a three times confirmed approval

A black hole certainly feels like it forms when you first feel that dramatic difference in a vehicle, it's addictive though.

When I have it all done I'm hoping to set some records, and maybe I'll try to get out of my groove alittle and take on a time attack officially for a record, would be interesting to see. But all said and done I love this car, destroying it is not what I am hoping to do, so if that means holding back until some parts show up that'll be cake.

slowswap

You'll be over blowering the car. At this level you'd need to run E85, which means you'll need ID2200's and two fuel pumps, modded for E85.

I highly doubt you can make over 500 whp with any supercharger on a 2.0L LSJ, unless you run a **** ton of compression, but good luck keep the head on.

The best way is a 1.6L max blower size and then spraying your way to the number you're looking for.

EDIT:

A quote from Kenne Bell's website, and I do believe they know their ****.

Legion

The car already runs an Aeromotive fuel system large enough to support the fuel demands of a 750hp 4 cylinder (the cylinder count is important on fuel for future reference). And the E-85 conversion was completed in Seattle, I will only need new injectors for the system.

I will be running a 2.4L at 9:1 compression, with a far superior Supercharger efficiency, it will work well. With reworked heads, with extreme spring rates, I don't see it being that hard to do it.

For example my 5.0L Mustang GT made 225hp stock at the engine. Not changing any of the engine size just polishing the internals and slapping on AFR heads I made 85hp at the wheels conservatively tuned. Yes that won't be as much the same to the Cobalt, but with the supercharger in play I am planning on the individual parts complementing each other in a pattern I've seen many race cars follow with an almost Golden Rule frenzy.

RPM x compression (octane rating vs engine dynamic) x boost (heat vs output) x cam (duration/lift) x flow (intake vs exhaust) = Output.

That's simplified so don't flame me I'm just watering it down to absolute basics. If the car doesn't meet expectations on the blower, there is a 200 shot NX kit in the garage I can put back on and solve that. There is so much math in explaining how I came up with the 2.3 Whipple it would be a thesis.

* Kennebell is right, but they are more referring to the limits of the Ford engines IE 03/04 Cobra/GT500 etc which swapping internals that can take a beating and polishing/blueprinting greatly reduces. The 2.3L is like a 2.8 or 3.2 for a V-8 as far as PERCENTAGE GAINS not a direct equivalent but gain %. It will run the supercharger fine with the extra literage I already had in play, and the new heat extractor hood is in play to supply extra room. All factors where accounted for.

slowswap

A 1.6L blower on 2.4 makes a lot more sense. Your next battle will be keeping the blower it self cool, which will help keep the IAT's down. I've heard of people circulating the oil through an oil cooler to drop blower temps, but itts a lot of work, something to consider though.

Does your Aeromotive pump support 750hp on E85 or something like Q16? More methonal means more overall demand for fuel. My buddies 700hp E85 Evo needs two aftermarket fuel pumps to support it. He runs FIC 2200's.

What pressure have you calculated the blower to be outputting? I would think 10:1 compression would be easier to get things done on, but 9:1 will be easier to get higher pressures from.

I would plan on using the nitrous kit, just purely to keep this "safe" and together.

EDIT: 2.3L blower on a 2.4L will be way to much blower.

EDIT2: I keep thinking about this. If you really want to get it done, you'll need to build a high revving motor to do this kind of efficiently. Something along the lines of 8-9k redline would make this a bit easier to do. No matter what, you'll end up with supercharger lag. It'll drive much like centrifugal supercharger in terms of boost, with at least twice the heat.