I m begining (hopefully) a project in which i convert a saab B207 into an LSJ (to use lsj w. loom and ecu),

and then im thinking of twincharging it. Target its somewhere 600+ whp.

Will harrop 1320 + turbo do the job? Will HPT ecu handle this setup?

other stuff to do to the engine exept pistons etc is darton sleeves, bal. delete,

water (meth?) injection, chargecooler.

Any ideas, thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

 

I'm pretty sure no one has twin charged with the TVS before. I think because the boost comes from the turbo and the m62 is just used to spool. But good luck

 

the twincharge setup is very difficult to setup the boost control. the SC is only used to spool the turbo and then the boost bypass valve opens. don't waste money on the TVS and turbo. use the stock SC and save some money. or just go straight turbo, it's much more efficient

 

there is a thread on here somewhere that explains the in's and out's of twin charging. Search it and that should answer most of your questions... good luck

 

This.

Stick with the m62, the supercharger is only used to spool the turbo.

 

in

 

Dont waste ur money and if u want a 600 hp car get something that aint fwd.

 

Thanks you guys for the immediate responce!

well i thought that when in series, the turbo blows into the sc, which compresses

the air furthermore. Thus a more efficient sc will do a better job (thats because

i think that tvs is bit more efficient than m62 - might be wrong).

I might go for a straight turbo but the car is light/agile and i could take advance of

the sc's responce. Its ok to loose some efficiency i dont mind... Hope with

good cooling to increase it.

 

i agree! i have an opel speedster/vx220, a lotus elise variant, MR configuration

 

Blazin07ss is talking about a parallel setup, you're talking about a series setup.

The information I have suggests in a parallel setup, the simplest way to set it up is to take whatever your pressure ratio to achieve your goal power is, square root it, and have each power adder do half the work. You don't HAVE to do it that way, the turbo can do most, and supercharger very little, or whatever, but you don't just add the boosts together, you multiply them.

 

Go turbo only. Much easier, cleaner, cheaper if you sell your old parts and like everyone said, more efficient!

 

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/adva...ormula-132146/

 

Oh new info. I should probably keep searching.

I didnt know that a parallel configuration was achievable (im not referring to vw stuff),

by the aftermarket industry.

Yes i knew that in a compound setup, pressure is multiplied by the second charger (last to the intake).

So, the max pressure of turbo for instance is 1.6 and sc 1.3 you have ~ 2 bar. Something like that.

wayfarer i think you are talking about in series configuration?

Parallel from what i know is when the first charger reaches a limit (specified by the tuning)

disengages (via x clutch) and the second comes in. Thats a bit tricky i think to map

and install the whole clutch system.

Also you said something about "boost bypass valve", i couldnt find something about it. Well i know what it is

but how does this work in a compound setup? If you directly bypass the SC from turbo to intake,

the excess pressure of the turbo will "return" into the sc. I think.

I m sorry if you already talked about it,

i searched into the forums for "twincharging" couldnt find something.

ps. Im learning now so please dont be to harsh if i talk crazy. Also i cant speak english very well so...

Thank you, again!

 

If you're gonna twincharge, screw the s/c all together and use sequential turbos. You can use a small one for off the line low end acceleration, then a much larger one for higher top-end. To my knowledge its not been done on a Cobalt before, but that doesnt mean its not doable. Theres honestly plenty of room behind and to the side of the motor to run a custom sequential setup.

 

Read...

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/loun...-sound-283931/

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/dyno...edline-243006/

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l...ed-tvs-235916/

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/pict...-video-216453/

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l...harged-188085/

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/forc...-buyer-158907/

Here is what you need to know.

The first Twincharged LSJ used a compounded system.

Twincharged Saturn Ion Redline 2.0 liter Eaton M62 - Car Videos on StreetFire

Hahn Racecraft worked on a twin charge kit and eventually gave up on it for a straight turbo setup.

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/hahn...charger-63138/

A couple of years later, ZZP released a twincharge kit and stood by it for a couple years. They eventually ditched the kit in favor of straight turbo swaps. They used a by pass setup.

Here is what the dyno graphs looked like with the bypass.

 

And ebristol this is why you can't get rid of your car! You give a ton of info to this community.

 

sub'd

 

Hi LMP1,

Thought I recognised that name... (Exmantaa; VX forum ;-) )

I would first think about making the Saab/LSJ and ecu work in your car before you chase big HP numbers... You'll need to learn all in's and out's of the ecu and make the engine run flawless with HPT before you go after the big numbers. And a solid 300WHP in a 900kg rwd rear engined Speedster is something to experience.



:-)

 

I did the B207R swap. Have yet to throw a turbo on it. LOL

 

Oh hi Exmantaa! Yes i agree. But i have to make up my mind before i install

the engine, about the target hp number because i should prep it (sleeves rods etc.)

The one that will give me the engine, will machine it too. If i stay at 300 i dont need sleeves.

Everything will be done at its time

Whats more, learning is not bad and the guys here are amazing providing me all these info!!!

(special thanks to ebristol amazing info)

Now, compound turbocharging was my initial thought until someone told me that its very difficult

to get it to work, temps are beyond hell and they are prefered choise for diesels.

If i can get it to work, i prefer it to twincharging cause its more efficient.

air->big turbo->small turbo->engine->small turbo (until max pressure)->big turbo->exhaust

For now i ll study the links the ebristol gave. I had a first look, things are not so good

for twincharging exept the atom. We need to learn more from that;


To accomplish this amount of power per liter safely, extensive modifications are done to the stock Ecotec 2.0L. The engine is fitted with many upgrades including Darton Mid sleeves, custom ceramic coated Wiseco pistons, H-beam Carrillo connecting rods, and ARP hardware. Then the original M62 supercharger is re-installed along with a Garrett GTX 3076 turbocharger to supply the airflow required to reach the 700hp goal. Fueling is supplied by 1100cc injectors and a massive Aeromotive 1000 fuel pump. A custom air-to-water heat exchanger is used to cool the supercharger output along with a gigantic air-to-air intercooler in the rear to cool the air from the turbo, both units custom made for the conversion by Griffin Thermal Products. The conversion uses a pair of boost controllers to control the boost feeding the engine from the supercharger and turbo. One of the controllers is hooked up to a Tial MV-R water cooled wastegate to keep the turbo boost at 35psi on high boost. A second boost controller is used to turn the supercharger off once the turbo pressure exceeds the output of the supercharger, increasing efficiency and allowing more power to get to the ground.

 

 

Simply swap this Saab engine in your car and learn HPT with it, while your engine man builds you a strong 2nd engine. ;-)

 

Not quiet that simple. We're/some are having crank re-learn issues.

I got mine learned with a Snap-On MODIS, but start-up's once warm can be a BITCH!!!

 

That's strange than, as the LSJ is a glorified Saab B207 engine block with bigger inl. manifold studs, some machined corners on the head and different camshafts.
Did you now solve/checked the hex timing of your Saab cams for the cam sensor?

 

I timed it to LSJ specs and only a Snap-On MODIS could time it. Still getting hard starts sometimes...