meth question
meth question
ok i tried a search but couldnt really find exactly what i wanted. lets say your running meth and have your car tuned for meth, now if you run out of meth is there some sort of backup tune that will kick in still allowing you to go WOT without the use of it and will still run properly? sorry for saying meth 100 times lollo
Short answer is No. This is why meth can be a problem at times and you should have the proper setup to alert you if it stops spraying. Make sure you have a wideband, make sure you have an interceptor to watch for knock, etc.
The only way to save yourself really is as follows. When tuning for meth...First off let me go into something first. The reason you gain power from meth is because the methanol increases your octane and from that you can increase your timing. The more timing you run the more power you have. So with that said if you are running 18 degrees of timing off meth and then bump up to 25 degrees with meth and everything seems fine, great you gained power.
Now one day you are driving alone and the nozzle clogs, the pump dies, something fails and you are at wide open throttle, you will have a **** load of KR and could possibly break multiple things lol. The only way to "stop" this from happening is VERY quickly backing off the throttle and to pay A LOT of attention to your gauges every time you go wide open throttle.
If you want to avoid all of this, you could use methanol injection as a "safety" feature and not a power adder, although that is not as much fun. Basically what that means is just leaving the timing at 18 in the scenario that I gave. If you don't increase your timing and just leave it as a cooling mod basically then if something happens, it clogs, pump freezes, whatever your motor will be fine
The only way to save yourself really is as follows. When tuning for meth...First off let me go into something first. The reason you gain power from meth is because the methanol increases your octane and from that you can increase your timing. The more timing you run the more power you have. So with that said if you are running 18 degrees of timing off meth and then bump up to 25 degrees with meth and everything seems fine, great you gained power.
Now one day you are driving alone and the nozzle clogs, the pump dies, something fails and you are at wide open throttle, you will have a **** load of KR and could possibly break multiple things lol. The only way to "stop" this from happening is VERY quickly backing off the throttle and to pay A LOT of attention to your gauges every time you go wide open throttle.
If you want to avoid all of this, you could use methanol injection as a "safety" feature and not a power adder, although that is not as much fun. Basically what that means is just leaving the timing at 18 in the scenario that I gave. If you don't increase your timing and just leave it as a cooling mod basically then if something happens, it clogs, pump freezes, whatever your motor will be fine
It's not just a "keep a check on the levels". Parts can break at any given time. Pumps can stop working, nozzles can clog, lines could get pinched/cut, tanks could go empty, all sorts of things. if you are pusing the car when this happens it won't be good.
NOW one way you can help this is to mess with the KR settings in your tune. When you have knock the ecu can take out a certain amount of timing and then will hold that amount for a certain time, this is called the "recovery time". Personally I feel it should be maxed to be on the safe side, but this in itself can cause issues with false knock etc.
NOW one way you can help this is to mess with the KR settings in your tune. When you have knock the ecu can take out a certain amount of timing and then will hold that amount for a certain time, this is called the "recovery time". Personally I feel it should be maxed to be on the safe side, but this in itself can cause issues with false knock etc.
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From: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada
Short answer is No. This is why meth can be a problem at times and you should have the proper setup to alert you if it stops spraying. Make sure you have a wideband, make sure you have an interceptor to watch for knock, etc.
The only way to save yourself really is as follows. When tuning for meth...First off let me go into something first. The reason you gain power from meth is because the methanol increases your octane and from that you can increase your timing. The more timing you run the more power you have. So with that said if you are running 18 degrees of timing off meth and then bump up to 25 degrees with meth and everything seems fine, great you gained power.
Now one day you are driving alone and the nozzle clogs, the pump dies, something fails and you are at wide open throttle, you will have a **** load of KR and could possibly break multiple things lol. The only way to "stop" this from happening is VERY quickly backing off the throttle and to pay A LOT of attention to your gauges every time you go wide open throttle.
If you want to avoid all of this, you could use methanol injection as a "safety" feature and not a power adder, although that is not as much fun. Basically what that means is just leaving the timing at 18 in the scenario that I gave. If you don't increase your timing and just leave it as a cooling mod basically then if something happens, it clogs, pump freezes, whatever your motor will be fine
The only way to save yourself really is as follows. When tuning for meth...First off let me go into something first. The reason you gain power from meth is because the methanol increases your octane and from that you can increase your timing. The more timing you run the more power you have. So with that said if you are running 18 degrees of timing off meth and then bump up to 25 degrees with meth and everything seems fine, great you gained power.
Now one day you are driving alone and the nozzle clogs, the pump dies, something fails and you are at wide open throttle, you will have a **** load of KR and could possibly break multiple things lol. The only way to "stop" this from happening is VERY quickly backing off the throttle and to pay A LOT of attention to your gauges every time you go wide open throttle.
If you want to avoid all of this, you could use methanol injection as a "safety" feature and not a power adder, although that is not as much fun. Basically what that means is just leaving the timing at 18 in the scenario that I gave. If you don't increase your timing and just leave it as a cooling mod basically then if something happens, it clogs, pump freezes, whatever your motor will be fine
couldnt have said it better myself.
Are the special GM Stage 3 features tunable by Trifecta?
The three main features of GM Stage 3 are the User-Adjustable Rev Limiter, High Octane Mode, and Nitrous algorithm. Please familiarize yourself with their basic functions before proceeding: http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...s-W57C196.aspx
User-Adjustable Rev Limiter
This feature allows you to adjust your rev limiter from 6500 up to 8000 rpms in 250rpm increments. If you feel the need to change the increment size from 250 to something else, we can adjust that for you!
PLEASE FOLLOW THE PRECAUTIONS REGARDING REVVING PAST 7000RPM LISTED IN THE Q&A LINK.
High Octane Mode
This feature adds a predefined amount of spark to your current spark map. Because it is added to whatever timing you have already dialed into your tune, rather than being a separate spark table, this feature can be used with its default setting. We do offer customization of this feature for those who would like to fine tune it by adding more/less timing!
Nitrous Algorithm
This feature pulls timing and adds fuel consistent with a 50 shot of nitrous. We have full control over the spark, fuel, and activation criteria (rpm, manifold pressure, & throttle position) for this feature. This means we can adjust it to accommodate for a bigger shot, or even zero out the spark and fuel tables to have this algorithm serve as an activator for anything you hook up to it!
e.g. Hook it up to your meth pump and use it in conjunction with HOM! If your meth pump ever fails, the failsafe built into the HOM feature will keep your motor safe!
Yup. To my knowledge nobody has tried it yet, but theres no doubt it would work. Devilsown has confirmed that it could easily work with one of their kits since the PCM only serves as an on/off toggle, not as a power source.
If you connected your meth pump to the PCM the same way you would a nitrous kit, we could tweak the nitrous algorithm to enable at a certain manifold pressure level (rpm and tps too!), completely null out the fuel and spark adders, and change the "nitrous" cutoff rpm to something like 1rpm before redline.
With HOM as the only feature adding timing, if your pump ever fails HOM will turn off due to knock and you could maybe save your motors life.
It would be a good idea to still have a master enable switch for times that you dont want to run meth at all.
If you connected your meth pump to the PCM the same way you would a nitrous kit, we could tweak the nitrous algorithm to enable at a certain manifold pressure level (rpm and tps too!), completely null out the fuel and spark adders, and change the "nitrous" cutoff rpm to something like 1rpm before redline.
With HOM as the only feature adding timing, if your pump ever fails HOM will turn off due to knock and you could maybe save your motors life.
It would be a good idea to still have a master enable switch for times that you dont want to run meth at all.
Yup. To my knowledge nobody has tried it yet, but theres no doubt it would work. Devilsown has confirmed that it could easily work with one of their kits since the PCM only serves as an on/off toggle, not as a power source.
If you connected your meth pump to the PCM the same way you would a nitrous kit, we could tweak the nitrous algorithm to enable at a certain manifold pressure level (rpm and tps too!), completely null out the fuel and spark adders, and change the "nitrous" cutoff rpm to something like 1rpm before redline.
With HOM as the only feature adding timing, if your pump ever fails HOM will turn off due to knock and you could maybe save your motors life.
It would be a good idea to still have a master enable switch for times that you dont want to run meth at all.
If you connected your meth pump to the PCM the same way you would a nitrous kit, we could tweak the nitrous algorithm to enable at a certain manifold pressure level (rpm and tps too!), completely null out the fuel and spark adders, and change the "nitrous" cutoff rpm to something like 1rpm before redline.
With HOM as the only feature adding timing, if your pump ever fails HOM will turn off due to knock and you could maybe save your motors life.
It would be a good idea to still have a master enable switch for times that you dont want to run meth at all.
Yes, with GMS3. Since HOM has a built-in failsafe that turns it off if enough knock is detected, it stands to reason that if your pump fails, your engine will knock, and HOM will turn off. That sounds like exactly what you need based on your OP. There is of course the risk that the intial knock could be bad enough to ruin your day, but in my experience the HOM turns off VERY quickly at the first sign of knock.
You don't even need to activate your meth pump using the nitrous algorithm. I was just rambling because I misunderstood the question a bit. lol
The failsafe would have to be in the tune, and I just dont see how thats possible without custom programming on the PCM. If a pump fails it fails, right? Not sure what failsafe AIS could have that would make the tune pull timing back down. If you find out what AIS's method is please post it! I imagine it *could* be some sort of a piggyback system, but have never heard of it.
You don't even need to activate your meth pump using the nitrous algorithm. I was just rambling because I misunderstood the question a bit. lol
The failsafe would have to be in the tune, and I just dont see how thats possible without custom programming on the PCM. If a pump fails it fails, right? Not sure what failsafe AIS could have that would make the tune pull timing back down. If you find out what AIS's method is please post it! I imagine it *could* be some sort of a piggyback system, but have never heard of it.
Last edited by Pyros777; Jan 23, 2011 at 04:11 PM.
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Joined: 10-31-09
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From: the darkness
he briefly explained it to me...he said he would help the tuner get everything situated in the pcm....and you should be tuning with meth no matter what. i have a complete stage 2 progressive kit and electronic box with my kit and everything to go with it for anyone that wants it. i just decided to explore secondary fueling......3 gallon tank too.
from what he told me most cars have a blank somewhere on the ecu that would be used as a control......dont quote me though because i had this talk with rodney a long time ago.
from what he told me most cars have a blank somewhere on the ecu that would be used as a control......dont quote me though because i had this talk with rodney a long time ago.
Yes, with GMS3. Since HOM has a built-in failsafe that turns it off if enough knock is detected, it stands to reason that if your pump fails, your engine will knock, and HOM will turn off. That sounds like exactly what you need based on your OP. There is of course the risk that the intial knock could be bad enough to ruin your day, but in my experience the HOM turns off VERY quickly at the first sign of knock.
You don't even need to activate your meth pump using the nitrous algorithm. I was just rambling because I misunderstood the question a bit. lol
The failsafe would have to be in the tune, and I just dont see how thats possible without custom programming on the PCM. If a pump fails it fails, right? Not sure what failsafe AIS could have that would make the tune pull timing back down. If you find out what AIS's method is please post it! I imagine it *could* be some sort of a piggyback system, but have never heard of it.
You don't even need to activate your meth pump using the nitrous algorithm. I was just rambling because I misunderstood the question a bit. lol
The failsafe would have to be in the tune, and I just dont see how thats possible without custom programming on the PCM. If a pump fails it fails, right? Not sure what failsafe AIS could have that would make the tune pull timing back down. If you find out what AIS's method is please post it! I imagine it *could* be some sort of a piggyback system, but have never heard of it.
You can use this thread, and just adapt it for your meth kit:
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/nitr...nstall-219248/
If you don't want/need your pump to be activated by the PCM, then you dont need to worry about wiring it up in any special way. HOM will still turn off if your pump craps out.
@omiotek: Thats cool! Sounds like AIS somehow taps into the PCM! Not sure what exactly he might be doing, but its interesting that he went that route. Anyway, not to discredit AIS because they are a great company, GMS3 is more of an all-in-one package that would be compatible with any meth kit. As far as custom tuning, that is the whole appeal of the trifecta version, since it is totally HPT accessible.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/nitr...nstall-219248/
If you don't want/need your pump to be activated by the PCM, then you dont need to worry about wiring it up in any special way. HOM will still turn off if your pump craps out.
@omiotek: Thats cool! Sounds like AIS somehow taps into the PCM! Not sure what exactly he might be doing, but its interesting that he went that route. Anyway, not to discredit AIS because they are a great company, GMS3 is more of an all-in-one package that would be compatible with any meth kit. As far as custom tuning, that is the whole appeal of the trifecta version, since it is totally HPT accessible.
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Joined: 10-31-09
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From: the darkness
tep he definately taps the ecm but idk what exactly he does...he said he would help whoevers tuning it to get it setup though. yep no worries there. i just wanna get rid of this ais kit.... 650 shipped anywhere but over seas, or 600 plus shipping if you think it will be cheaper...... comes with the ais stage 2 progressive kit, 3 gallon tank, stainless lines(cobalt direct), direct port nozzles(you can run a single or dual if you want), 700 dollar kit so people will save some money.
lol im surprised you used my real name
lol im surprised you used my real name
You can use this thread, and just adapt it for your meth kit:
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/nitr...nstall-219248/
If you don't want/need your pump to be activated by the PCM, then you dont need to worry about wiring it up in any special way. HOM will still turn off if your pump craps out.
@omiotek: Thats cool! Sounds like AIS somehow taps into the PCM! Not sure what exactly he might be doing, but its interesting that he went that route. Anyway, not to discredit AIS because they are a great company, GMS3 is more of an all-in-one package that would be compatible with any meth kit. As far as custom tuning, that is the whole appeal of the trifecta version, since it is totally HPT accessible.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/nitr...nstall-219248/
If you don't want/need your pump to be activated by the PCM, then you dont need to worry about wiring it up in any special way. HOM will still turn off if your pump craps out.
@omiotek: Thats cool! Sounds like AIS somehow taps into the PCM! Not sure what exactly he might be doing, but its interesting that he went that route. Anyway, not to discredit AIS because they are a great company, GMS3 is more of an all-in-one package that would be compatible with any meth kit. As far as custom tuning, that is the whole appeal of the trifecta version, since it is totally HPT accessible.