Nitrous+Timing+Methanol
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Nitrous+Timing+Methanol
This is a combo question so I figured I should just post it here, besides this side gets more attention then the nitrous section.
Anyways with a 50/50 mix of methanol injection and a 35shot of nitrous wet, whats the max timing I should run?
Also, If I were to up the shot to a 50shot, again with the 50/50 mix of meth, what would the max timing be that I should run?
I could test this out myself, but I would just like a rough estimate. Just as a tip, I sprayed a roughly 35shot last night and it was absolutely amazing, I am now not only addicted to meth, but I am addicted to nitrous oxide as well now, THANKS CSS.NET!!
Anyways with a 50/50 mix of methanol injection and a 35shot of nitrous wet, whats the max timing I should run?
Also, If I were to up the shot to a 50shot, again with the 50/50 mix of meth, what would the max timing be that I should run?
I could test this out myself, but I would just like a rough estimate. Just as a tip, I sprayed a roughly 35shot last night and it was absolutely amazing, I am now not only addicted to meth, but I am addicted to nitrous oxide as well now, THANKS CSS.NET!!
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From: Chicago...Land
The problem with running both though is you add meth to the car to advance timing, consequently when you add nitrous you must retard timing. Being said there is a VERY FINE LINE you walk when doing this and w/o the help of a very knowledgable tuner I would tell people to shy away from this idea.
Others can chip in but I "think" that covers it
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From: Illinois
I don't think there is a problem with running methanol injection and nitrous together. If I am wrong please let me know, but I don't see why there would be an issue. Methanol injection is used to help with detonation and with cooling the intake charge. The nitrous obviously is the power adder and combining the two will help to eliminate any knock that could occur while using nitrous without retarding timing.
For example, I am running 24 degrees of timing with a roughly 50/50 mix of methanol on my top end and I have absolutely zero knock. I sprayed the 35 shot, roughly, at about 1100psi and it was a thrill, and the car held up great and only had 2 degrees of knock at a certain rpm on a certain cell. So I backed the timing off slightly and all seemed to be good.
I don't see why there would be an issue with running methanol injection and a wet shot of nitrous together. Both are tapped into the cold air intake, and neither of them should cause an issue. If I am wrong however, please let me know as I will have to run either one or the other.
The plan is to use the methanol to help with detonation and to NOT have to decrease the timing much, if at all when i spray the 35shot. If I was not using methanol injection I could not run 24 degrees of timing, let alone if I was spraying the nitrous.
Thanks for your time, and let me know your opinions. I do all of my own tuning and consider myself a knowledgeable tuner, however I would like to stay on the safe side. This is my first time and experience with nitrous oxide and would like to gain all of the knowledge I can.
Thanks for your time.
For example, I am running 24 degrees of timing with a roughly 50/50 mix of methanol on my top end and I have absolutely zero knock. I sprayed the 35 shot, roughly, at about 1100psi and it was a thrill, and the car held up great and only had 2 degrees of knock at a certain rpm on a certain cell. So I backed the timing off slightly and all seemed to be good.
I don't see why there would be an issue with running methanol injection and a wet shot of nitrous together. Both are tapped into the cold air intake, and neither of them should cause an issue. If I am wrong however, please let me know as I will have to run either one or the other.
The plan is to use the methanol to help with detonation and to NOT have to decrease the timing much, if at all when i spray the 35shot. If I was not using methanol injection I could not run 24 degrees of timing, let alone if I was spraying the nitrous.
Thanks for your time, and let me know your opinions. I do all of my own tuning and consider myself a knowledgeable tuner, however I would like to stay on the safe side. This is my first time and experience with nitrous oxide and would like to gain all of the knowledge I can.
Thanks for your time.
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From: OH IO
This is true. If you'r going to run both get an indicator light to make sure that the meth is spraying when you are at WOT.
The problem with running both though is you add meth to the car to advance timing, consequently when you add nitrous you must retard timing. Being said there is a VERY FINE LINE you walk when doing this and w/o the help of a very knowledgable tuner I would tell people to shy away from this idea.
Others can chip in but I "think" that covers it
The problem with running both though is you add meth to the car to advance timing, consequently when you add nitrous you must retard timing. Being said there is a VERY FINE LINE you walk when doing this and w/o the help of a very knowledgable tuner I would tell people to shy away from this idea.
Others can chip in but I "think" that covers it
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From: Illinois
My main question is how much timing can you run on a 35shot with methanol injection. I see the quote problem unquote with running both. One adds timing and one you must retard timing. However I know both can be ran safely, so what is a "safe" number of timing to be ran with methanol injection and a 35 wet shot.
Basically the way I look at it is like this. Example. Lets say on a stock lsj running 15 degrees of timing, on a 35 shot they need to pull 2 degrees of timing to run a max of 13 degrees of timing.
Well with my methanol injection I am running 24 degrees of timing. So if a 35shot requires 2 degrees of timing to be pulled, then I will retune and run 22 degrees of timing.
Basically what I am trying to find out, is what is a "safe" amount of timing to run with methanol injection on a 35 wet shot at roughly 1000psi.
Edit: Or how much timing does the gm stage 3 run? Or how much timing are you supposed to retard on a 35shot if any. Thanks.
Basically the way I look at it is like this. Example. Lets say on a stock lsj running 15 degrees of timing, on a 35 shot they need to pull 2 degrees of timing to run a max of 13 degrees of timing.
Well with my methanol injection I am running 24 degrees of timing. So if a 35shot requires 2 degrees of timing to be pulled, then I will retune and run 22 degrees of timing.
Basically what I am trying to find out, is what is a "safe" amount of timing to run with methanol injection on a 35 wet shot at roughly 1000psi.
Edit: Or how much timing does the gm stage 3 run? Or how much timing are you supposed to retard on a 35shot if any. Thanks.
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From: Chicago...Land
I don't think there is a problem with running methanol injection and nitrous together. If I am wrong please let me know, but I don't see why there would be an issue. Methanol injection is used to help with detonation and with cooling the intake charge. The nitrous obviously is the power adder and combining the two will help to eliminate any knock that could occur while using nitrous without retarding timing.
For example, I am running 24 degrees of timing with a roughly 50/50 mix of methanol on my top end and I have absolutely zero knock. I sprayed the 35 shot, roughly, at about 1100psi and it was a thrill, and the car held up great and only had 2 degrees of knock at a certain rpm on a certain cell. So I backed the timing off slightly and all seemed to be good.
I don't see why there would be an issue with running methanol injection and a wet shot of nitrous together. Both are tapped into the cold air intake, and neither of them should cause an issue. If I am wrong however, please let me know as I will have to run either one or the other.
The plan is to use the methanol to help with detonation and to NOT have to decrease the timing much, if at all when i spray the 35shot. If I was not using methanol injection I could not run 24 degrees of timing, let alone if I was spraying the nitrous.
Thanks for your time, and let me know your opinions. I do all of my own tuning and consider myself a knowledgeable tuner, however I would like to stay on the safe side. This is my first time and experience with nitrous oxide and would like to gain all of the knowledge I can.
Thanks for your time.
For example, I am running 24 degrees of timing with a roughly 50/50 mix of methanol on my top end and I have absolutely zero knock. I sprayed the 35 shot, roughly, at about 1100psi and it was a thrill, and the car held up great and only had 2 degrees of knock at a certain rpm on a certain cell. So I backed the timing off slightly and all seemed to be good.
I don't see why there would be an issue with running methanol injection and a wet shot of nitrous together. Both are tapped into the cold air intake, and neither of them should cause an issue. If I am wrong however, please let me know as I will have to run either one or the other.
The plan is to use the methanol to help with detonation and to NOT have to decrease the timing much, if at all when i spray the 35shot. If I was not using methanol injection I could not run 24 degrees of timing, let alone if I was spraying the nitrous.
Thanks for your time, and let me know your opinions. I do all of my own tuning and consider myself a knowledgeable tuner, however I would like to stay on the safe side. This is my first time and experience with nitrous oxide and would like to gain all of the knowledge I can.
Thanks for your time.
My main question is how much timing can you run on a 35shot with methanol injection. I see the quote problem unquote with running both. One adds timing and one you must retard timing. However I know both can be ran safely, so what is a "safe" number of timing to be ran with methanol injection and a 35 wet shot.
Basically the way I look at it is like this. Example. Lets say on a stock lsj running 15 degrees of timing, on a 35 shot they need to pull 2 degrees of timing to run a max of 13 degrees of timing.
Well with my methanol injection I am running 24 degrees of timing. So if a 35shot requires 2 degrees of timing to be pulled, then I will retune and run 22 degrees of timing.
Basically what I am trying to find out, is what is a "safe" amount of timing to run with methanol injection on a 35 wet shot at roughly 1000psi.
Basically the way I look at it is like this. Example. Lets say on a stock lsj running 15 degrees of timing, on a 35 shot they need to pull 2 degrees of timing to run a max of 13 degrees of timing.
Well with my methanol injection I am running 24 degrees of timing. So if a 35shot requires 2 degrees of timing to be pulled, then I will retune and run 22 degrees of timing.
Basically what I am trying to find out, is what is a "safe" amount of timing to run with methanol injection on a 35 wet shot at roughly 1000psi.
Last edited by victoryss; May 1, 2009 at 08:08 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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From: OH IO
My main question is how much timing can you run on a 35shot with methanol injection. I see the quote problem unquote with running both. One adds timing and one you must retard timing. However I know both can be ran safely, so what is a "safe" number of timing to be ran with methanol injection and a 35 wet shot.
Basically the way I look at it is like this. Example. Lets say on a stock lsj running 15 degrees of timing, on a 35 shot they need to pull 2 degrees of timing to run a max of 13 degrees of timing.
Well with my methanol injection I am running 24 degrees of timing. So if a 35shot requires 2 degrees of timing to be pulled, then I will retune and run 22 degrees of timing.
Basically what I am trying to find out, is what is a "safe" amount of timing to run with methanol injection on a 35 wet shot at roughly 1000psi.
Basically the way I look at it is like this. Example. Lets say on a stock lsj running 15 degrees of timing, on a 35 shot they need to pull 2 degrees of timing to run a max of 13 degrees of timing.
Well with my methanol injection I am running 24 degrees of timing. So if a 35shot requires 2 degrees of timing to be pulled, then I will retune and run 22 degrees of timing.
Basically what I am trying to find out, is what is a "safe" amount of timing to run with methanol injection on a 35 wet shot at roughly 1000psi.
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From: Illinois
First off the methanol injection will not stop spraying for any reason. If it did then I would be seeing knock and higher iat2's and immediately back off the throttle.
All I am trying to figure out is what is a "safe" number of timing to run with a 35shot of nitrous. I know with JUST methanol depending on the mixture you can run up to 25 degrees of timing on some cars. Some cars knock at 20 degrees, some knock at 25 degrees, it just all depends. My car currently likes 24 degrees of timing, but if I need to retard a few degrees for the 35 shot, let me know.
Does anyone here know, how much timing needs to be pulled to run a 35shot safely?
All I am trying to figure out is what is a "safe" number of timing to run with a 35shot of nitrous. I know with JUST methanol depending on the mixture you can run up to 25 degrees of timing on some cars. Some cars knock at 20 degrees, some knock at 25 degrees, it just all depends. My car currently likes 24 degrees of timing, but if I need to retard a few degrees for the 35 shot, let me know.
Does anyone here know, how much timing needs to be pulled to run a 35shot safely?
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From: Illinois
edit: I have already sprayed the 35shot with 24 degrees of timing and a roughly 50/50 mix of methanol and there were no problems. I did this twice from 3k rpms in 2nd gear until 7k rpms and shifted into 3rd. I have yet to spray in 3rd and or continue to spray. Basically the reason why I don't see there being an issue is because I have to be at WOT aka wide open throttle for the nitrous to spray. If I am at WOT then methanol WILL be spraying into the motor unless my tank empties or something goes wrong. In that case there would be knock etc, yes.
But still the question remains how much timing is safe to run on a 35shot. And does anyone know how much timing the gm stage 3 tune's use? Thanks guys.
Thanks for chiming in 95cam86roc if you find out any useful information or have any questions let me know.
PS: I am trying to figure this all out because tonight is the first night I will be running the cobalt at the track and I would love to use the 35 shot. Thanks boys.
Victoryss - Thanks for your input I will drop my timing down to 20 degrees and start from there. I really don't think there will be a problem, but I will let you guys know how it turns out.
But still the question remains how much timing is safe to run on a 35shot. And does anyone know how much timing the gm stage 3 tune's use? Thanks guys.
Thanks for chiming in 95cam86roc if you find out any useful information or have any questions let me know.
PS: I am trying to figure this all out because tonight is the first night I will be running the cobalt at the track and I would love to use the 35 shot. Thanks boys.
Victoryss - Thanks for your input I will drop my timing down to 20 degrees and start from there. I really don't think there will be a problem, but I will let you guys know how it turns out.
Last edited by Zach06CobaltSC; May 1, 2009 at 08:15 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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From: Illinois
Its at cordova. I just realized your only like 2 1/2 hrs away from me roughly depending on where in chicago you live. I wish I could have made the meet this year. Anyways i really hope you can make it out there, theres going to be another turbo sedan out there and some other good guys. If you need a place to crash my place is pretty chill to and 5 miles away from the drag strip.
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From: OH IO
I think you'll have an answer by the end of the day. Its still really early n most of the guys arent up yet. I know Area, ls1fbody and a couple others will be able to chime in and will be helpful. I wish i was closer so i could join you guys at the track.
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From: Illinois
Oh thats what I plan on doing. What i am trying to find out is what is a "safe" amount of timing to run. I know the car can take 24 degrees with methanol and nitrous, so I figure backing it off to 20 degrees would be reasonable and not to dangerous. But I want someone with nitrous experience to let me know how much should be backed off with a 35 wet shot.
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From: st.louis
It will be fine as long as its done in the right amounts.........Ill try and find the thread where a vendor talks about running them together and says its perfectly fine. I think it might be the guy from Devils own.
zach you have answered your own question a few times... no knock is safe, and you have confirmed that so id say your safe...
now the next thing would be to get an egt and watch it on long pulls... thats gonna be your piston popper IMO...
the pistons can handle pressure, its heat they dont like! when i say heat i mean cyl temps and egt not iat or ect.
now the next thing would be to get an egt and watch it on long pulls... thats gonna be your piston popper IMO...
the pistons can handle pressure, its heat they dont like! when i say heat i mean cyl temps and egt not iat or ect.
