Official Procharger Build Thread
06-01-2007, 10:06 PM
#51
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06-01-2007, 10:12 PM
#52
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Im hoping that the kit will work on both 2.4, 2.2l(with different tuning), and the 2.0l! of course there will be small differences.
as for just hardware:
Im sure that could happen
as for just hardware:
Im sure that could happen
Last edited by chevytech007; 06-01-2007 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
06-01-2007, 10:29 PM
#53
man oh man I can't wait till about 2 months from now at the latest... you guys will be able to see what kind of beast a procharged 2.4 is.
and for the record supposedly the red line/ ss/sc make about 150 WHP ( if i remember correctly, someone google it ) sans blower. that would mean that it would put down the same power the 2.4 would put out... however the lsj has a little extra in it to prepare for boost.
I can't wait to get my car procharged ( 2.4+tuning+procharger FTW). If i remember correctly speed mafia had a 2.2 at 212 WHP on a better tune so just think of the possibilities. 10PSI from a procharger should produce as much, if not more power than the m62 at stock 12.5 psi because of the shear velocity of the air..
also the procharger would probably be easier on the motor considering it builds to max boost through the full powerband, unlike the m62 which has max boost around 4K rpm.. which also makes for easier lauches. oh and need I remind you guys who say you should just turbo... it's self contained and is extremely easy to install.
I would be interested in seeing a procharged lsj and if it happens we need to start a club for all procharged cobalts and ions, because I'm sure after the first person gets it set and it works reliably there would be a slew of people who will be interested.. no one wants to be a guinea pig..
and for the record supposedly the red line/ ss/sc make about 150 WHP ( if i remember correctly, someone google it ) sans blower. that would mean that it would put down the same power the 2.4 would put out... however the lsj has a little extra in it to prepare for boost.
I can't wait to get my car procharged ( 2.4+tuning+procharger FTW). If i remember correctly speed mafia had a 2.2 at 212 WHP on a better tune so just think of the possibilities. 10PSI from a procharger should produce as much, if not more power than the m62 at stock 12.5 psi because of the shear velocity of the air..
also the procharger would probably be easier on the motor considering it builds to max boost through the full powerband, unlike the m62 which has max boost around 4K rpm.. which also makes for easier lauches. oh and need I remind you guys who say you should just turbo... it's self contained and is extremely easy to install.
I would be interested in seeing a procharged lsj and if it happens we need to start a club for all procharged cobalts and ions, because I'm sure after the first person gets it set and it works reliably there would be a slew of people who will be interested.. no one wants to be a guinea pig..
06-01-2007, 11:24 PM
#54
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i know of countless cars here in kc with ati stuff on them.
at least 75% of them have sent blowers back to get rebuilt
one had 400 miles on it. running 8 psi on a p1.
blamo, puked the bearings and started leaking. f1r's need to be rebuilt a lot, f2r's
i haven't heard anything about the f3 series yet.
i know this because half of the people i run around with have ati's on their cars. four of them are techs there, two of them are sponsored by them. the rest bought em, because the support is local {lenexa is about 10 mins away from downtown kc}
im not bashing, im just throwing this out there
at least 75% of them have sent blowers back to get rebuilt
one had 400 miles on it. running 8 psi on a p1.
blamo, puked the bearings and started leaking. f1r's need to be rebuilt a lot, f2r's
i haven't heard anything about the f3 series yet.
i know this because half of the people i run around with have ati's on their cars. four of them are techs there, two of them are sponsored by them. the rest bought em, because the support is local {lenexa is about 10 mins away from downtown kc}
im not bashing, im just throwing this out there
06-01-2007, 11:32 PM
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06-02-2007, 12:42 AM
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man oh man I can't wait till about 2 months from now at the latest... you guys will be able to see what kind of beast a procharged 2.4 is.
and for the record supposedly the red line/ ss/sc make about 150 WHP ( if i remember correctly, someone google it ) sans blower. that would mean that it would put down the same power the 2.4 would put out... however the lsj has a little extra in it to prepare for boost.
I can't wait to get my car procharged ( 2.4+tuning+procharger FTW). If i remember correctly speed mafia had a 2.2 at 212 WHP on a better tune so just think of the possibilities. 10PSI from a procharger should produce as much, if not more power than the m62 at stock 12.5 psi because of the shear velocity of the air..
also the procharger would probably be easier on the motor considering it builds to max boost through the full powerband, unlike the m62 which has max boost around 4K rpm.. which also makes for easier lauches. oh and need I remind you guys who say you should just turbo... it's self contained and is extremely easy to install.
I would be interested in seeing a procharged lsj and if it happens we need to start a club for all procharged cobalts and ions, because I'm sure after the first person gets it set and it works reliably there would be a slew of people who will be interested.. no one wants to be a guinea pig..
and for the record supposedly the red line/ ss/sc make about 150 WHP ( if i remember correctly, someone google it ) sans blower. that would mean that it would put down the same power the 2.4 would put out... however the lsj has a little extra in it to prepare for boost.
I can't wait to get my car procharged ( 2.4+tuning+procharger FTW). If i remember correctly speed mafia had a 2.2 at 212 WHP on a better tune so just think of the possibilities. 10PSI from a procharger should produce as much, if not more power than the m62 at stock 12.5 psi because of the shear velocity of the air..
also the procharger would probably be easier on the motor considering it builds to max boost through the full powerband, unlike the m62 which has max boost around 4K rpm.. which also makes for easier lauches. oh and need I remind you guys who say you should just turbo... it's self contained and is extremely easy to install.
I would be interested in seeing a procharged lsj and if it happens we need to start a club for all procharged cobalts and ions, because I'm sure after the first person gets it set and it works reliably there would be a slew of people who will be interested.. no one wants to be a guinea pig..
06-02-2007, 01:56 AM
#58
based on bc3techs 58% efficiency on a bad piggy back tune a 2.4 should get around 237 HP on the stock kit and no other mods. As it is the injector swap and tune mod for the 2.4s can yield up to 15 HP. that means you can be pushing out close to 250 Hp which is about Stage 2 territory and you haven't even started tapping the potential of the blower. A procharged 2.4 or 2.0 for that matter should be able to break the 300 Hp mark with some engine work and a 3" pulley that be a monster with alot more room to grow
06-02-2007, 02:07 AM
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based on bc3techs 58% efficiency on a bad piggy back tune a 2.4 should get around 237 HP on the stock kit and no other mods. As it is the injector swap and tune mod for the 2.4s can yield up to 15 HP. that means you can be pushing out close to 250 Hp which is about Stage 2 territory and you haven't even started tapping the potential of the blower. A procharged 2.4 or 2.0 for that matter should be able to break the 300 Hp mark with some engine work and a 3" pulley that be a monster with alot more room to grow
06-02-2007, 10:06 AM
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06-02-2007, 11:07 AM
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yes! yes he's right! i demand you pay for my new engine under warranty! ROFL....
06-02-2007, 10:11 PM
#63
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How many people would be interested in a bolt on procharger c1 kit? I have been talking to a guy at speedmafia.com and we are working on it right now. But im just looking for opinions. If you go to his website you can see the set-up for the 2.2l ion and it looks good. he said they made 190whp on a untuned 2.2L @ 10 psi. But I think It would be awsome to do it on a 2.0l. So, tell me what you think!
I'm suprised bc3tech didn't tell you guys what happened to his "untuned" motor...
06-02-2007, 10:37 PM
#65
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06-02-2007, 10:44 PM
#66
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06-02-2007, 10:46 PM
#67
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Nope. Remember, MAF measure incoming air, not air pressure...that's the job of a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) Sensor.
06-02-2007, 10:54 PM
#68
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on that note, i still don't think i'd add a blower without some way to monitor and tune it, but if is half as effective as being claimed, i think it has potential.
in the case of a 2.4, if it put down 200WHP & 190ft/lbs with stock internals and only larger injectors and some dyno time to make it work, that's a bargain
06-02-2007, 11:05 PM
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No no guys you mis understand why I said that. Not that the 2.0 can't handle more cause we all know it can but if they put the SAME amount of boost into your 2.0's that they did the 2.2 then yes it would make less power. The whole displacement thing guys.
True they could pump up the boost for the 2.0 and make gobs more power but I was refering to the 10psi part.
Not hating on your 2.0's guys really.
True they could pump up the boost for the 2.0 and make gobs more power but I was refering to the 10psi part.
Not hating on your 2.0's guys really.
06-02-2007, 11:28 PM
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not to mention the 2.2l has 10:1 compression.....a centrifigal blower builds significant boost much later than the roots type, so IMO there would be a lag in acceleration throughout lower RPMs in comparison to the stock characteristics, so not sure if it will work best for us having a short stroke motor.. The 2.4 guys would likely benefit greater because the longer stroke may help make up for the late boost...now if our 2.0l was configured for lets say 7500+ rpms then having later boost would be beneficial because we'd have a longer power band and because boost comes a little later perhaps wheel hop would be less of a problem..guess there are a few different ways of reasoning to guess the outcome...anyone else agree?? I am interested though
Edit: It's not as if we are forced to deal with the way the compressor creates boost. You have to use the proper size as well as the proper sized pulley. The power wouldn't be linear like with the roots, but that's not necessarily a limiting factor, just a difference. However, centrifugals aren't the best solution. They don't provide low end boost so there are better options, but it would work if set up right. Like I said, I will just be interested to see how it goes.
Last edited by Mikey851; 06-03-2007 at 12:38 AM.
06-03-2007, 12:23 AM
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granted, i was just thinking that it couldn't deal with that volume of air. this is ONLY based on what i had read, i obviously have never even worked on a 2.2.
on that note, i still don't think i'd add a blower without some way to monitor and tune it, but if is half as effective as being claimed, i think it has potential.
in the case of a 2.4, if it put down 200WHP & 190ft/lbs with stock internals and only larger injectors and some dyno time to make it work, that's a bargain
on that note, i still don't think i'd add a blower without some way to monitor and tune it, but if is half as effective as being claimed, i think it has potential.
in the case of a 2.4, if it put down 200WHP & 190ft/lbs with stock internals and only larger injectors and some dyno time to make it work, that's a bargain
06-03-2007, 12:38 AM
#72
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With BC3Tech he ran fine for along time...till he changed his tune and RAN MORE BOOST...i believe if he would of kept his current setup the same he would still be fine but there is a huge difference between...10psi at redline and i believe he was making 10psi at 4K or something crazy...and then not having the ability of not pulling timing and adding fuel as needed but his car in a bad situation...BC3TECH will tell you that he didnt have problems and he would do WOT pulls everyday on his 2.2L...
But we are talking about a 2.0 w/tuning is a whole different animal! i am excited
06-03-2007, 12:17 PM
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Find a way to mount the procharger, remove LSJ manifold and air-water system (removes the need for adapter plates), strap on an air-air, saab manifold and throttle body and you would have a lot less fabrication than a turbo setup fo sho.
06-03-2007, 12:49 PM
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yes, twin screw and TVS would make comparable high-end boost, but make more boost earlier than a procharger. Procharger may be better for us because of our stupid 1st gear being to close of a ratio..the later boost may actually help us..