fastblackSS

Ok i need to know something, i have heard from a certain source (not knowing if i should believe them) DO YOU HAVE TO GET DIFFERENT PLUGS????COLD PLUGS????
Someone help me with this please.

BLKLS

not if your stock....what is the basis of this question. i know if you are spraying its a good idea for a sc car i don't know. i'm sure some one else will fiil in.

fastblackSS

Well i wanted to go with the stage 2 kit from gm i was just wondering if there is anything else you need to run the stage 2 correctly i guess

Mikey851

No you don't absolutely need different plugs. It probably wouldn't hurt to go one step colder if you drive you car fairly hard or are in a really warm climate.

Claudia SS

Does anybody know a part number?

fastblackSS

Ok cool cool i live in colorado and i drive the car fairly normal i was just wondering if i needed anything else

ReMz

NGK BKR7E is not a bad idea for GM Stage 2. They are one step colder.

Mikey851

True; I personally would go with 1 step colder, but it's not necessary as long as you're using premium fuel and not driving really hard.

an0malous

one of the jobs of a spark plug is to help dissipate heat from the cylinder.
although this is a minute effect compared to how a "colder" plug keeps the temperature of the tip of the spark plug down.

reduction of "hot spots" and slight reduction in cylinder temps means less chance of the air/fuel mixture igniting before the spark is there to ignite it.

I read just a few days ago someone saying "go 1 step colder for every 50hp of modifying"
kinda sounds like a good rule to me.

I run 1 step colder on my car and i find it runs smoother.

I also find that the copper plug runs better with a 0.40 gap than the stockers do.
This could be due to the fact that the platinum plug has a small pointy electrode that is supposedly more prone to spark blowout.

RedEcotecSS

Where's the best place to get a set of these?

Mikey851

Plus, copper is a better conductor than platinum, therefore you can gap it a little larger and still overcome the resistance as it rises with heat in the cylinder.

NapaGuy

IThis could be due to the fact that the platinum plug has a small pointy electrode that is supposedly more prone to spark blowout.[/QUOTE]

Not true.

This is a falsehood.

Plus, copper is a better conductor than platinum, therefore you can gap it a little larger and still overcome the resistance as it rises with heat in the cylinder.

Also not true.

an0malous

then why are my copper NGKs not blowing out at 0.40
but my platinums are?

Mikey851

Copper conducts heat better than Platinum as well.

Edit: At least in automotive I know copper is preferred to platinum in high heat applications.

I believe silver is a better conductor than copper but is not suited to the cylinder environment.

NapaGuy

hard to say, there are many conditions to your specific car that could relate to your blow out issue. both iridium and platinum precious metals are as good or better then copper or nickel the size of the tip does not make it blow out easier. a spark is a spark it travels the path of least resistance from one point to another. as such the smaller tip is as close to the ground as would be a copper/nickel plug... depending on gap
perhaps your gap is incorrect. I cannot armchair your issue. I just wanted to let people know that others are speaking incorrectly.

Uhh yeah that is absolutely true. I don't trust anyone with the name napaguy.

Copper conducts heat better than Platinum as well.

sigh....
what does my name have to do with my knowledge of sparkplugs... i could change it to canadian guy will that make me not knowedgable in back bacon and beer.???

What I am saying is true. your knowledge is incorrect.

you are welcome to not agree with me as is allowed in a free world. but it does not make your statements true.

Mikey851

Napa guy, actually you are right about gapping copper. It is supposed to be gapped smaller than platinum ...hmm. But it is recommended in race apps to use copper.

Edit: You may be right about the metal itself, but check this clip from an article out:

"Nissan DID address this problem by specifying a larger plug gap when using platinum plugs (0.039" to 0.044") instead of standard plugs (0.032" to 0.035"). In this case, the platinums will produce roughly the same spark energy as the standard plugs while providing an extended service interval (50K to 60K miles for platinums versus 20K to 30K miles for standards)."

This is what I'm talking about. You must gap the Platinum plug larger to get the same spark voltage; therefore in a performance boost app this isn't necessarily good as even though it may produce good spark at X amount of gap, as the heat in the cylinder rises this will not play in it's favor.

NapaGuy

Yes as it states there. due to higher thermal and electrical conductivity you can gap the iridium and platinum plugs to a greater amount.
But just because it states you can gap the plug more does not nessicarily mean you should or need to. It all depends on the application. For example here in canada we have ethenal blended fuel this makes all cars have reduced gas milage. due to the higher oxygen content in the fuel. You will find all Plug manufacterers like NGK, Bosch, Champion etc etc recommend a different heat range plug to compensate for this



here are some tech info

Platinum and Iridium are hard materials with very high melting points in comparison to nickel alloy. This enabled engineers to produce small center electrode tip diameters for improved ignitability. Nickel alloy is a softer material and has a lower melting point than platinum and iridium, requiring larger center electrode tip diameters. Required voltage to fire a nickel alloy spark plug is higher and ignitability isn’t as good.

It’s commonly thought a hotter spark plug means hotter spark and cooler spark plug means cooler spark.
The spark plug is dependent on the ignition system in order to fire. High energy ignition systems can
increase firing end temperature however this has nothing to do with the spark plugs ability to transfer
heat. While fine wire spark plugs ignite better than standard nickel alloy designs, the spark plugs heat
rating remains the same based on the insulator design.

Since the gap size has a direct affect on the spark plug's tip temperature
and on the voltage necessary to ionize (light) the air/fuel mixture, careful attention is required. While it is a popular misconception that plugs are pre-gapped from the factory, the fact remains that the gap must be adjusted for the vehicle that the spark plug is intended for. Those with modified engines must remember that a modified engine with higher compression or forced induction will typically require a smaller gap settings (to ensure ignitability
in these denser air/fuel mixtures). As a rule, the more power you are making, the smaller the gap you will need.

A spark plug's voltage requirement is directly proportionate to the gap size. The larger the gap, the more voltage is needed to bridge the gap. Most experienced tuners know that opening gaps up to present a larger spark to the air/fuel mixture maximizes burn efficiency. It is for this reason that most racers add high power ignition systems. The added power allows them to open the gap yet still provide a strong spark.

With this mind, many think the larger the gap the better. In fact, some aftermarket ignition systems boast that their systems can tolerate gaps that are extreme. Be wary of such claims. In most cases, the largest gap you can run may still be smaller than you think.

Mikey851

Platinum does not have higher thermal conductivity than copper. Copper has the highest thermal conductivity of all only behind silver.

No it states that you must gap platinum larger to get it's optimum spark when compared to the same spark on a copper plug with a smaller gap. If you gap a platinum plug at the same gap as copper it will not produce as much voltage. Therefore if you are running a high heat application and need a smaller gap the platinum plug would not necessarily be a good choice.

Here's my point; if you were running a 2.7" pulley would you get platinum plugs and gap them at .040" to get their max spark, or would you buy coppers and gap them at .035", and get the same voltage?

Reguardless of that, I know for a fact that copper is a better heat conductor. This is why on Platinum tipped plugs they still use copper cores to transfer heat. Copper is the safer choice and is definately the only metal that should be used in a nitrous application. If you use platinum with nitrous it's no bueno.

an0malous

(stage 2, I/E, 94 octane fuel)

0.32 gap. 4* of knock
0.35 gap 2* of knock
0.37 gap Very slight very occasional knock.
0.40 gap 0* of knock.

Ive read around quite a bit. and theres so much contradictory bullshit about spark gaps.
half say "go small"
half say "go large"

All i know is i saw those results today first hand because i tried ALL those gaps and tested.

So someone in the know, explain to me why some people say reducing gap reduces knock.

or higher HP needs smaller gap.

Mikey851

Are you talking about your coppers or your platinums?

an0malous

that was with coppers.

monkeiboy

Why are you spraying a 2.4Ll, you just WANT to kill your VVT don't you?

Mikey851

So what's your setup? If you don't have a smaller pulley than 2.9", the recommended gap is .040". If you go lower than that you are depriving the cylinder of voltage and therefore you will have knock.

Even though it makes it easier to jump the gap at a smaller gap, it will create less voltage. You only gap smaller out of necessity, not because it helps. This is why MSD work well with high performance applications because you can still deliver a powerful spark without compromising your engine.

Napaguy, I confirmed it.

Look up the properties of both copper and platinum.

Copper has a conductivity of-
Electrical: 5.96 mOhms

Platinum has a conductivity of-
Electrical: 96.6 mOhms

Copper is a better conductor. Here is the link to prove it:

http://environmentalchemistry.com/yo...lectrical.html

Edit: I know that higher resistance in an ignition secondary does equal higher spark voltage ie the platinum; but it is risky to go about getting your hot spark like that. It's a better choice to go with coppers, which although make less voltage than platinum, they easily make the voltage they do; so if you want a safe, hot spark then get coppers and a more powerful ignition system.

an0malous

thank you. finally someone who has information that corrolates to my data.

I have looked at websites all day today that say "boosted cars should gap smaller as you mod"


The only thing out of all my reading that makes sense to me so far, is that you should try and get the biggest gap you can without any detrimental effects.
and only go smaller if your getting misfires or blowout etc.

does that sound right? because my car likes 0.40-0.42 MUCH more than anything in the 0.30s

Mikey851

Yes that is right on. You only need to go with a smaller gap if you must. Also, take a look at that chart on the link I posted. It shows conductivities of different metals.