Hey guys,
I've been debating doing a Meth Injection system so I've had some questions.
And yes I've read the Q&A it has alot of good information most of it the inner workings of how water/meth injection works. The problem is thier are no straight anwsers about our cars.

So here what I need as people post I will update with the information and maybe this will be made a sticky:

Questions:


What is Meth Injection?
- AIS Q&A (Read post #71 on page 4)

What benifit does it have to our car?
- Lower IAT2 temps and reduce engine temps as well as increase effective octane of Gas to stop knock causing the system to not retard the ignition.

How much of an IAT2 Temp Drop?
- 20 to 30 degrees and the blower will be cooled to the point of room temperature.

How much of an Engine Temp drop?
- The engine temps will not drop or if they do it's not noticeable the effect is the cylinder heads are cooled and the compression is increased due to the water being converted from liquid to steam rapidly.

How much of an octane boost?
- Estimates rate it as 93 pump gas would be effectively 107 to 112 octane

If methanol is the substance that cools the supercharger why water mixture?
- Methanol has a low flash boil point. When it hits the supercharger housing it boils instantley and releases it's oxygen this creates a heavy cooling effect enough that multiple WOT runs and your M62 SC will still be room temp. But this only effects the SC. Water has a much higher flash point which is why so much heat is needed to boil it. Only the engine produces this much heat and thus with a water mixture the meth boils at the supercharger and the water boils at the cylinder heads. This cools the cylinder heads reduce the strain of heat and allowing them to last much longer. Also when the water boils it creates steam and the steam creates a heavier push during combustion that raises engine Torque a few lbs.

What does it mean I can do?
- You can with tuning software (HP Tuners) advance the timing of your LSJ as the enigne will not be prone to knock as you are effectively a higher octane. Aera47 advanced his 25 degress and stated he belives any further and the SS starts losing power. Of course all cars are diffrent.

What is the risk?
- The risk is if you tune to run that much timing if you run out of fluid you run the chance of blowing your engine up as the effective octane would no longer be in the 100's. If you run the setup with out a tune you will not get the performance gain but you will get the benifit of lowered IAT2's and engine temps which will in the long run protect your engine and theoriticly allow it to last longer.
addition:
Due to a recent study of pulleys I have learned that anything under stage 2 (2.9 and below) generates heat at such a quick rate that with out cooling mods the ecu pulls timing due to knock. This means those running smaller pulleys may be running slower than stage 2 alone. Meth injection will fix this as it not only cools the supercharger and IAT2 temp but boost the octane into the high 100's.

Don't our M62 Eaton Superchargers have a coating and will methanol destroy it?
- Yes our Eaton's have a coating on the rotors. This coating is a teflon based coating that is diffrent from other rotors of it's time and holds up to meth injection very well. Even if the coating was stripped off the rotors the performance loss is neglible.
Side Note: Our M62 Eaton Roots Superchargers are Generation 5 other M62's generations 1 thru 4 do not have the Teflon coating we have and spraying while I've been told is fine that the coating is stripped away you should contact Eaton to verify that the coating is non essential to the performance of the rotors and overall the Supercharger itself.

I thought if we run water into an engine it hydro locks?
- True, but meth / water is sprayed as a tiny mist that is no more heavier in volume or humidity then running your car on a foggy morning.

How is it installed?
- Kits are sold by many companies the main ones being Devils Own Alchol Injection, Alchol Injection Systems, Snow Performance, and so on. The kits come in diffrent versions with trunk mounted systems and under hood mounted systems.
For Pics of Install done by member 2K5SS/SC? scroll down to post #16.

What is the diffrence between regular and progressive?
- Standard uses a switch or solenoid to detect the amount of boost and at a given rate (generally 8psi but is adjustable) will activate the jet nozzle and pump to spray into the intake. Progressive allows you to control how much is sprayed at any given time. Perhaps to start at 20% spray at 6 psi and slowly increase to 100% at 15 - 17 psi.

Where is the fluid held?
-Trunk mounted systems include a 1.5 to 6 quart tank depending on preference and money. Under hood systems either use a tank or the popular thing is to tap the washer tank and use it. Washer fluid contains methanol in their mixtures so the tanks is rated and can hold the fluid.

Will I lose windshield washing capablitlity?
- No, You can still use your wipers and spray. The meth will not effect the windows or paint. Just don't spray if you do a 100% meth system. In fact any thing over 50/50 meth and water you shouldn't spray.

Why no spray?
- Methanol is poisoness in decent quantites acorrding to wikipedia.com

Whats the point of mixtures?
-As water does not evaporate except at high temps the supercharger is not hot enough to evaporate the water thus only the eninge can benifit from a 100% water injection. Methanol has a lower evaporation point and thus will evaporate in the supercharger and which cools it. Thus a mixture is recomended for boosted applications. Many people perfer a 50/50 mix but various mixs can be used some use a 35 to 40/65 to 60 meth water mix.

Is mixtures made or do I have to mix it my self?
- Some companies on the web sell mixes but to get it locally you either have to go to a race track that sells it or get the ingredients yourself. Washer fluid rated for -20 degrees has a methanol water mix. (I'm not sure of the exact mixture amount thou - anyone?)

I'm spent to much money on a Meth injection system and can't tune for the hp gain what do I do?
- The simple anwser is save your money and get tuned or find someone who will sell you a Stage 3 PCM (remember your A/C will be shut off unless you do the Stage 3 AC hack) and install it in your car. The PCM has a tune for 100 octane gas. One of the members here hungryhip-ccp has done this and says it works great. Here is a Link to that post.




I'll continue to update this as people most new information about what effects it's had on theire cobalts and what to expect on install and manitinence.

UPDATE:

I have ordered a methanol injection kit for AIS and when it gets here I'll make a detaled how to for install and let you all know my thoughts and opinions when its done.

Thank you!

 

very nice, answered a couple questions i had too.

 

IAT2 drops I've seen have been around 20-30* @ WOT for me.

Engine temps really haven't dropped all the much as I spray before the blower to cool it.

Side note: 50/50 mix before the blower keeps is at room temperature or cooler after consecutive pulls. I can place my hand on the blower after doing consecutive pulls and hold it there all day long. This means the engine is receiving a lot cooler air, and is why I consistantly get my 20psi with my mods no matter what the weather is. By far one of the best mods I've done especially since it get 105*+ and 100% humidity in Charleston during the summer. For a whopping $230 for the Devil's Own kit, a 2 quart tank, and their T-shirt it was well worth the benefits!

 

^^t-shirt! damn! well on a side note, devil's own's site (alcohol-injection.com) has a public forum with a ton of questions and answers

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/forum/

 

ID be a little cautious spraying methanol through the coated rotors of your blower. Its prob just my opinion but ID think thatd be hell on them......

 

there's an explanation to that, it's safer than u think. just read up

 

I've sprayed many times through through mine with the 50/50mix and it looks nice clean and just as good as new inside. There is a new coating on the our rotors that is a lot better the old ones had and it stands up great to the mix I spray. I do however use straight methanol and mix it to the 50/50 ratio with water by myself. Then I add a capful of Groovy Grape scent for a pleasant smell.

 

Updated the info!

Keep it coming guys any specifics about install you want to share?
What did you use for power for the pump?
What mixes do you use and what gains tuned and untuned have you gotten?
Thanks!

 

the gen 3 and 4 m90 has a coating that you cant runany fuel through, water and nitrous alone are ok. a buddy of mine was going to put nitrous on his 3800 II but he had to run a dry kit and compensate with a custom nitrous tune.

 

LMAO! Are you serious? lol

 

Hmm.. I have a couple ?'s, How long will the tank last on just normal driving? I also understand by what you said is that i could get the meth installed on my car and run it without a tune and it would still help and not hurt anything right.

 

As a heart attack. Methanol smells horrible when it burns. Why do you think that all the cars at the drags that run alcohol smell so nice. Nothing like leaving the competition in the dust with a nice Grape scent! It's also available in Turbo Tangerine, Supercharged Strawberry, and a bunch of others too.

 

you can spray through the blower and be just fine.

 

Oh, I used a "Add-A-Circuit" and tapped into the fuze box under the hood for power to the pump. I can add pics of the setup on here is wanted.

 

Hey,
I'm in work so I don't have time to update yet but to anwser real quick
1.) Our Eatons are Gen V (5) that have a diffrent coating that is capable to run methanol.
2.) Depending on where you set the boost to kick the injection on. On a washer tank and light driving it could last you months on end. How often do you make boost when driving casually? Set it to 8 or 9psi and even semi agressive driving it won't kick in. But if your racing it will. Constant racing it will last two to three weeks depending. Do 20 runs down a track and using the washer resovoir you'll use up almost half a tank.

Pics would be great 2K5SS/SC?, Thanks!

 

Sneaky placement of the pump


2 Quart bottle and custom diamond plate mounting bracket


Nozzle installed in the intake tube


Boost sensor tapped into the vacuum line. (Note I re-tapped it into the line coming directly off the manifold as it won't work right on the line shown)


Sneaky placement of the relay for the kit


Finally, the overall picture

 

You got a t-shirt? **** I only got a baseball cap.

 

OK, Iam running a 1st gen m62 so methanol is still prob a no no over my rotors.......

 

best e-mail eaton and tell them what your blower is off of and ask them if its ok or not.

 

Very helpful. Thanks!

 

Glad to help!

Will update when I get home today.

 

Hey buddy I didn't get a hat! I paid a steep $7 for that T-shirt!

 

So if im understanding this right, If i order the meth kit and install it just as is with no tune, it should still be good for my car and help performance wise also??

 

Yes. You just need to use a small jet though because it'll make the car run a bit richer, but it'll keep the blower cold. If you do tune though, you'll really get to see the benefits. Going down .1 on the pulley size should even it out, but you really should tune instead.

What are your current mods so I better let you know what it'll do to your car specifically?

 

It would be like running a Cobra heat exchanger and or Dual pass endplate that only kicks in at almost to and all the way to WOT.
But think about it. Our cars when in cruise mode aka fifth gear on the higway at 60mph dosen't run hot and thus the stock Heat exchanger and cooling system is fine. You only need cooling mods when your running the car all out.

I could get a 2.1 pulley (ha ha I wish!) and as long as I never went over 4k rpms I would never have a problem. It's when I get on it that I over spin the SC and generate enough heat to melt the #4 cylinder.

And to anwser your second question anything that reduces the IAT2 temps and increases the effective octane of your fuel is good for you. You also get the benifit of better compression due to the flash point of water creating steam. The extra steam helps create a harder stroke creating more torque. How much torque? No real anwser unless Area47 wants to tell us from his secret dyno tests j/k. I would estimate a 4 to 8lb increase in torque.

Got to get back to work