Supercharger on a LK9?
04-19-2011, 10:24 PM
#1
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Supercharger on a LK9?
Ok, not sure anyone here will know but there are some really experienced EcoTec freaks here so...
First off you need to be aware this is strickly for an OFF ROAD application in a Desert Rail.
Next,
I picked up a practically fresh LK9 (Saab B207R) for a song which was just assembled by a factory trained Saab tech and am wondering if I can install my LSJ Supercharger on it?
Believe it or not there are a ton of really good reasons to stick with the Supercharger for Off Road applications.
I know you can install an LNF Turbo kit on an LSJ but you can't install the LSJ Supercharger on an LNF due to the SIDI and VVT, however from what I have read the LSJ was created from the LK9 although I am not positive that this is really correct or not since I can't find any internal information on the LK9 short block other than that the crank is the same as used on the LNF and LSJ and all three use oil squirters under the pistons. In addition I know the LNF and LSJ blocks are slightly different and that the pistons and rings are different and that the LNF uses 1019 steel rods like the LE5 and L61 but the LSJ uses 5115 steel rods. I can't find any data on the LK9 rods or pistons. I also know the heads on the LK9 and LSJ are similar.
I also understand that the LSJ is SFI and the LK9 uses MPFI what I don't know is if this represents a problem or not.
The ECU is not an issue since I plan on using a complete Computer wiring harness and program supplied by CBM.
Does any have any thoughts on this compatibility guys?
Bob
First off you need to be aware this is strickly for an OFF ROAD application in a Desert Rail.
Next,
I picked up a practically fresh LK9 (Saab B207R) for a song which was just assembled by a factory trained Saab tech and am wondering if I can install my LSJ Supercharger on it?
Believe it or not there are a ton of really good reasons to stick with the Supercharger for Off Road applications.
I know you can install an LNF Turbo kit on an LSJ but you can't install the LSJ Supercharger on an LNF due to the SIDI and VVT, however from what I have read the LSJ was created from the LK9 although I am not positive that this is really correct or not since I can't find any internal information on the LK9 short block other than that the crank is the same as used on the LNF and LSJ and all three use oil squirters under the pistons. In addition I know the LNF and LSJ blocks are slightly different and that the pistons and rings are different and that the LNF uses 1019 steel rods like the LE5 and L61 but the LSJ uses 5115 steel rods. I can't find any data on the LK9 rods or pistons. I also know the heads on the LK9 and LSJ are similar.
I also understand that the LSJ is SFI and the LK9 uses MPFI what I don't know is if this represents a problem or not.
The ECU is not an issue since I plan on using a complete Computer wiring harness and program supplied by CBM.
Does any have any thoughts on this compatibility guys?
Bob
04-19-2011, 10:53 PM
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not sure why it wouldn't work as long as you get all the supporting hardware. there will be some extra vacuum lines and junk to plug, but if you're building your own wiring harness and stand alone, you have the expertise to figure that part out too.
the issue i would look at it mounting the bottom of the intake manifold for support on the block, supercharger and intake weigh a good amount
if i may ask, why would you not want to keep the stock turbo on there? those things are instant boost, a shitload more torque than the blower and you can use the pcm
the issue i would look at it mounting the bottom of the intake manifold for support on the block, supercharger and intake weigh a good amount
if i may ask, why would you not want to keep the stock turbo on there? those things are instant boost, a shitload more torque than the blower and you can use the pcm
04-20-2011, 01:41 AM
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not sure why it wouldn't work as long as you get all the supporting hardware. there will be some extra vacuum lines and junk to plug, but if you're building your own wiring harness and stand alone, you have the expertise to figure that part out too.
the issue i would look at it mounting the bottom of the intake manifold for support on the block, supercharger and intake weigh a good amount
if i may ask, why would you not want to keep the stock turbo on there? those things are instant boost, a shitload more torque than the blower and you can use the pcm
the issue i would look at it mounting the bottom of the intake manifold for support on the block, supercharger and intake weigh a good amount
if i may ask, why would you not want to keep the stock turbo on there? those things are instant boost, a shitload more torque than the blower and you can use the pcm
Since I have the LSJ I have all the support brackets and parts to swap it from one engine to the other.
Regarding why the Supercharger vs the Turbo, well in the dirt the Supercharger is #1 more controllable on how the boost comes on in order to reduce tire spin. You see this rail will only weigh in at between 1100-1300 pounds and and a 9:1 ratio gearing even with 33's it will have the capability of frying the treads right off those Generals.
I will be changing the cams for something that moves the power band to the higher RPM range something in the 7200-8000+ RPM range.
The next issue is heat, the Air to Water Intercooler combined with the dual pass heat exchanger will help manage this far better than the Turbo ever could. Of gourse we will obviously be ditching the OEM oil cooler for something far more substantual with cooling fans along with a large 31x16 radiator with twin fans.
Lastly having a tunable program is a huge benefit for a CVT drive set up vs the locked tune on the Turbo platform.
The main question is just how similar are the LK9 and LSJ long blocks and heads?
Bob
04-20-2011, 06:10 AM
#4
Saab b207 (LK9) is internally practically identical to the LSJ, so a very easy bolt on conversion.
Your only worries will be the sensors for your ECU. (Saab uses the same 60-2 crank trigger)
As you "plan to convert to CBM ecu and harness", why not convert to an LSJ ecu with HPT? Plug and play...
Your only worries will be the sensors for your ECU. (Saab uses the same 60-2 crank trigger)
As you "plan to convert to CBM ecu and harness", why not convert to an LSJ ecu with HPT? Plug and play...
04-20-2011, 12:15 PM
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Saab b207 (LK9) is internally practically identical to the LSJ, so a very easy bolt on conversion.
Your only worries will be the sensors for your ECU. (Saab uses the same 60-2 crank trigger)
As you "plan to convert to CBM ecu and harness", why not convert to an LSJ ecu with HPT? Plug and play...
Your only worries will be the sensors for your ECU. (Saab uses the same 60-2 crank trigger)
As you "plan to convert to CBM ecu and harness", why not convert to an LSJ ecu with HPT? Plug and play...
I know I will have to strip all the sensors off my LSJ especially the Cam Sensor but I think I will be fine there.
HPT? More detailed info please.
I mean I have read comments from guys using HPT but I am unsure how this will help me to wire up my specific application. I have read about guys who can modify the OEM ECU deactivating the unneeded functions and this allows you to go with a stand alone harness but I have not found any stand alone wiring harnesses sold seperately from MEFI5 packages at shops like CBM.
I have also read about guys running MEFI4 ECU's with EFI Live but have never found anyone who is using this set up on an off road or sand rail application.
I think the biggest obstical I face is I am not starting with a wiring harness that I can disassemble and remove the unneeded wiring. So if anyone knows of a source for stand alone wiring harnesses for the MEFI4 ECU please speak up.
Thanks guys,
Bob
04-20-2011, 05:08 PM
#7
Don't worry about the internals, as these are identical to the LSJ. (GM used the Saab parts bin to build their LSJ engine) Only major difference is the Saab turbo cams and you better change these for some blower items.
LSJ Cam sensor will bolt right on, as will all other LSJ sensors. With the standard LSJ wiring harness and ECU you can use the LSJ/Saab as stand alone, BUT you must switch off the VATS immobilizer with HPTuners (or another programmer). You probably need to switch of a lot of other things in the ecu like AC etc, but that's easy for a tuner.
I'm practically doing the same thing; bolting an LSJ engine into a rear engined car (Opel Speedster = Lotus Elise clone with an Ecotec engine) My biggest "problem" is the VSS signal, as I use a F23 box that lacks the VSS speed sensor. (Will use an ABS hub speed signal for that, solved)
It's really a plug in solution and you only need to wire in the "blue connector" to your car system.
Oww wait, major hurdle: LSJ ecu works with the LSJ´s Electronic Throttle Body, so you need a GM E-pedal in your car too.
(If you need specific info on wiring; PM. ;-) )
LSJ Cam sensor will bolt right on, as will all other LSJ sensors. With the standard LSJ wiring harness and ECU you can use the LSJ/Saab as stand alone, BUT you must switch off the VATS immobilizer with HPTuners (or another programmer). You probably need to switch of a lot of other things in the ecu like AC etc, but that's easy for a tuner.
I'm practically doing the same thing; bolting an LSJ engine into a rear engined car (Opel Speedster = Lotus Elise clone with an Ecotec engine) My biggest "problem" is the VSS signal, as I use a F23 box that lacks the VSS speed sensor. (Will use an ABS hub speed signal for that, solved)
It's really a plug in solution and you only need to wire in the "blue connector" to your car system.
Oww wait, major hurdle: LSJ ecu works with the LSJ´s Electronic Throttle Body, so you need a GM E-pedal in your car too.
(If you need specific info on wiring; PM. ;-) )
04-20-2011, 10:05 PM
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Don't worry about the internals, as these are identical to the LSJ. (GM used the Saab parts bin to build their LSJ engine) Only major difference is the Saab turbo cams and you better change these for some blower items.
LSJ Cam sensor will bolt right on, as will all other LSJ sensors. With the standard LSJ wiring harness and ECU you can use the LSJ/Saab as stand alone, BUT you must switch off the VATS immobilizer with HPTuners (or another programmer). You probably need to switch of a lot of other things in the ecu like AC etc, but that's easy for a tuner.
I'm practically doing the same thing; bolting an LSJ engine into a rear engined car (Opel Speedster = Lotus Elise clone with an Ecotec engine) My biggest "problem" is the VSS signal, as I use a F23 box that lacks the VSS speed sensor. (Will use an ABS hub speed signal for that, solved)
It's really a plug in solution and you only need to wire in the "blue connector" to your car system.
Oww wait, major hurdle: LSJ ecu works with the LSJ´s Electronic Throttle Body, so you need a GM E-pedal in your car too.
(If you need specific info on wiring; PM. ;-) )
LSJ Cam sensor will bolt right on, as will all other LSJ sensors. With the standard LSJ wiring harness and ECU you can use the LSJ/Saab as stand alone, BUT you must switch off the VATS immobilizer with HPTuners (or another programmer). You probably need to switch of a lot of other things in the ecu like AC etc, but that's easy for a tuner.
I'm practically doing the same thing; bolting an LSJ engine into a rear engined car (Opel Speedster = Lotus Elise clone with an Ecotec engine) My biggest "problem" is the VSS signal, as I use a F23 box that lacks the VSS speed sensor. (Will use an ABS hub speed signal for that, solved)
It's really a plug in solution and you only need to wire in the "blue connector" to your car system.
Oww wait, major hurdle: LSJ ecu works with the LSJ´s Electronic Throttle Body, so you need a GM E-pedal in your car too.
(If you need specific info on wiring; PM. ;-) )
I already have an LS1 70mm TB and adapter too.
I'll PM you for the wiring later.
The engine arrives Thursday.
Bob
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