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Supercharger Swap

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Old 11-04-2005, 06:32 PM
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Supercharger Swap

Ok so everyone is saying dont buyt he Twincharged kit. just switch the blower. what blowers can we switch to? and about how much would it cost installed? and is this option available now? Please help clear things up if u may knwo these things. thanks
Old 11-04-2005, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JCswoosher2
Ok so everyone is saying dont buyt he Twincharged kit. just switch the blower. what blowers can we switch to? and about how much would it cost installed? and is this option available now? Please help clear things up if u may knwo these things. thanks

We need a sticky on the blower swap also.

There are two camps when it comes to swapping the blower.

The ones who want to go with an eaton M90. Going to the M90 gives you an additional 120cfm over the M62. They can also be had for around 600 dollars. All you would need would be an adapter plate for the Intercooler and for the Throttle body. Any good shop can fab you up these item's for a few hundred dollars. If i had to guess on power gains. 10 Psi with a M90 should get you 250-260 wheel horsepower.






The Roots Supercharger (aka "blower")
The roots supercharger was originally designed as an air moving device for industrial buildings. The roots supercharger features two counter-rotating lobes that trap air from the intake side of the supercharger (normally at the back of the supercharger), move it around the outside casing of the lobes, and out the bottom of the supercharger through an outlet / discharge port. Like the twin screw supercharger, the roots is a "positive displacement" aka "fixed displacement" supercharger, meaning that it moves a fixed volume of air per rotation. Notwithstanding minor amounts of air-leak at low rpms, the roots supercharger cannot flow backwards like a centrifugal supercharger, and is thus nearly as efficient in its ability to pump air at low rpms as it is at high rpms. What this means is that roots superchargers are very capable of making large amounts of boost even when engine rpms are very low. This makes for great low-end and midrange power, and also makes them great for trucks and towing vehicles. The roots is also self lubricated, and is the simplest of the supercharger designs, meaning it is reasonably priced and very reliable. This is why roots superchargers have been the choice of GM, Ford, Mercedes, and Toyota for OE applications.

The only real disadvantage to the roots supercharger is that it creates a lot of heat. There are two reasons for this. First, the roots supercharger does not compress air - it only moves from the intake port to the discharge port (i.e. it is the only supercharger design with no internal compression ratio). All of the compression is done in the intake manifold. Laws of thermodynamics kick in in favor of supercharger designs with an internal compression ratio (centrifugal and twin screw) because they do less work on the incoming air charge. We will leave the mathematics of this phenomenon to a later (much more boring) discussion. Another reason roots superchargers create higher amounts of heat is because they tend to carry some of the compressed air in the intake back into the supercharger because it gets trapped by the rotating lobes that are exposed to the hotter air in the intake manifold.
The other camp is the ones who want to run the Whipple. The whipple is a twin screw blower and would put out a lot better gains then the M90 would. The downfall is the price. You're looking at a good 1500 dollars for the 1.6L whipple plus the adapter plate for the intercooler and throttle body. The 1.6L puts out i believe a good 500 more cfm then the M62 does. Cobalt SS running 10 Psi from a whipple could expect 280-300 wheel horsepower without any other mods with good fuel.





The Twin Screw Supercharger
The twin screw supercharger at first glance appears to look similar to a roots supercharger both inside and out. The two technologies are indeed similar, however there are significant differences. At the heart of the twin-screw supercharger are two rotors, or "screws" that rotate towards each other. The rotors mesh together and draw air from the back of the supercharger. The twisting rotors move the air to the front of the supercharger, while compressing the air before discharging through a port at or near the front of the supercharger.

Because the compression is done inside the supercharger, this design produces less heat than a roots supercharger - in fact, it is almost as thermally efficient as a centrifugal design. Like the roots design, the twin-screw is a fixed displacement supercharger (meaning that it pumps a fixed volume of air per revolution), and because the tolerances between the rotating screws are very tight, its ability to create boost at low rpms is unparalleled. These characteristics make it ideal for trucks and towing vehicles, where low to mid range power is primary in importance. Another important advantage of the twin screw compressor is its reliability. Unlike a roots supercharger, the rotors in a twin screw supercharger do not actually touch, so there are virtually no wearing parts. For this reason, twin screw compressors are commonly used to pressurize cabins in passenger aircraft. Like roots superchargers, twin screw superchargers are self lubricated and do not tap into the engine's oil supply.

One disadvantage of the twin screw design is that, because it has an internal compression ratio, the twin screw is compressing air even when it is not sending boost to the engine (i.e. under cruising or deceleration). An internal bypass valve releases the pressurized air, but because it takes work to pressurize the air in the first place, the twin screw supercharger draws more power from the engine than while not under boost. Like the roots, the throttle body must be placed before the compressor because it is a fixed displacement supercharger.
Old 11-04-2005, 07:31 PM
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omg not another blower thread. I think UtOhCop and I have answered at least 3 or 4 within the last week.... by the way, THE SEARCH FUNCTION WORKS ON THIS WEBSITE
Old 10-12-2006, 10:55 PM
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relax VaMP. people like me enjoy not having to use the search button. I'd rather learn this way. besides there wouldn't be much to read if we didnt have posts like this one.
Old 10-12-2006, 11:04 PM
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i like the looks of the eaton but the m90 is alot easier lol...

would the swop need custom tuning? i'm guessing yes!
Old 10-12-2006, 11:11 PM
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i have a chrome brand new m90 an adapter plate for the intake and a throttle body plate if any one is interested throw me some prices ive had it for a while and never threw it on my cobalt email me if any one is interested bob@teamgmci.com
Old 10-12-2006, 11:14 PM
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Awesome knowlegdable post!
Old 10-12-2006, 11:17 PM
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oh this is good! can you post some pics?
Old 10-12-2006, 11:21 PM
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has anyone done a swap yet? if so, did you have to tune and what kinda numbers did you get?
Old 10-12-2006, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cobalt06ss_sc
i like the looks of the eaton but the m90 is alot easier lol...

would the swop need custom tuning? i'm guessing yes!
???? eaton is an m90
Old 10-12-2006, 11:28 PM
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dam that m90 looks pretty intense i would do it but i think i wanan keep my warrenty lol GM stage 2 all the way!! lol
Old 10-12-2006, 11:29 PM
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is this REALLY AN OPTION bc ill get my hands on an m90 and ill have it fabbed and put on my car in a heartbeat haha i even have all my old modular pullys from my gtp and belt, i have one question you guys hve an m90 on there but its the 4th generation thats the one from the newest gtps can you used the 3rd gen one the one that was on the GTPS from 97-03

Last edited by SLOWBALT06; 10-12-2006 at 11:45 PM.
Old 10-12-2006, 11:40 PM
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did you guys know you can get a m90 BRAND NEW for 650 from ZZP NOW THATS BANG FOR YOUR BUCK im buying it ill see you guys with my m90 in about a month or so
Old 10-13-2006, 12:03 AM
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HAHAHa, i ENJOY THIS THREAD IT IS VERY INFORMATIVE... BUT CHECK THE DATES... THIS THING IS NEARLY A YEAR OLD!!! Way to resurrect the dead. I'm not ripping on you or anything... I just think it's funny. That would be pretty sweet to see an LS become an LS/SC! haha. Good Luck SloBalt06... if you are serious... I'd like to see the turn out.
Old 10-13-2006, 12:06 AM
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LOL damn this is an old thread
Old 10-13-2006, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by USMCFieldMP
HAHAHa, i ENJOY THIS THREAD IT IS VERY INFORMATIVE... BUT CHECK THE DATES... THIS THING IS NEARLY A YEAR OLD!!! Way to resurrect the dead. I'm not ripping on you or anything... I just think it's funny. That would be pretty sweet to see an LS become an LS/SC! haha. Good Luck SloBalt06... if you are serious... I'd like to see the turn out.
haha first of all i dont drive a LS secondly the thread was started a year ago but it has been posted more times today than it was the day it was started check that one out and third this seems actually somewhat reasonable the ONLY thing i see thats gonna stop me is the size of the m90 compared to the m62 its a little bigger and the blower is in the front so theres not much room to work with
Old 10-13-2006, 12:20 AM
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For the whipple and the M90 coudl the pullies be changed with the ones for the m62 to get better gains? That whipple one makes me blow my wad!!
Old 10-13-2006, 01:12 AM
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haha no one will even answer if it can be done much less what works with it the post started last year but some guy revived it today and now i want answers but no one wants to give them to me
Old 10-13-2006, 02:05 AM
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hey slowbalt from what i can see, you shoudl be able to use a 3rd gen no problem
Old 10-13-2006, 02:23 AM
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The M90 may work, but it may have a little lag since the blower will be spinning slower and creating a higher level of boost. Eaton + 15psi and above + low rpm = bleed past the rotors.

The Whipple 1.6L is borderline too large for our application. It may also suffer from a little lag, but not as significant as the M90.

Whipple doesn't offer a smaller s/c and will not. I have spoke with them a few times about it.

Trust me I'm looking for an alternate solution to the blower swap.
Old 10-13-2006, 02:33 AM
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so we cant use the m90 thats terrible let me know
Old 10-13-2006, 02:37 AM
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i dont see why not, have the charger rebuilt to make sure it will hold i think biggest concern will be over spinning the charger, also like orginally posted the m90 puts out cfm,

more air= more power, its like some turbos put out out 8 psi which si equivalent 14b at 16 psi

in general just liek a headm better airflow, more air allowed through, thus creating mroe power, i think the biggest thing to worry about is space but it should fit

i think no one will ever know until its dyno tested with results

but yah
Old 10-13-2006, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SLOWBALT06
so we cant use the m90 thats terrible let me know
It very well could work, but I don't think it is the most efficient solution.
Old 10-13-2006, 02:52 AM
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also keep in mind that you cant bypass a twin screw supercharger its internally compressed which means the even when the air is bypassing the engine its still compressing this is the major drawback with these kinds of blowers, off boost efficiency really goes down the crapper =/
Old 10-13-2006, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Serpico
also keep in mind that you cant bypass a twin screw supercharger its internally compressed which means the even when the air is bypassing the engine its still compressing this is the major drawback with these kinds of blowers, off boost efficiency really goes down the crapper =/
But it comes close. When at it's highest efficiency range under load it would produce ~22psi while only consuming about 40 hp. The M62 with the stock pulley consumes about 40 hp under load. Who knows what it consumes with a 2.5". Not to mention the twin screw creates half the heat of roots while under load.

You would have to upgrade the HE to compensate for the heat when not under load, but most people that are building for power are already doing that.


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