I need to find an engine builder who can build me 300-350 WHP !! I have had enough of people shitting on Cobalts! I am totally gonna do a fully built engine, anybody interested in helpin me out? I'm talkin serious internals, Piston, H beams, rods, cams, potential stroker kit, ectt.... the whole works. Currently I have the GMPP stage II Kit, And I JUST LOVE IT!! But, i want to do a fully built engine, and I want to utilize my Existing stage II kit and i will be dancin!!! by the way what the HECK do I need to achieve this typw of WHP, i;m not talkin about bolt ons i'm talkin INTERNALS pure internals. By the way is there a stroker kit for the 2.0 LSJ? Need suggestions

Thanks,

Leo

 

Drop the S/C and turbo dat' bitch! Pistons, rods, rings, valves, springs, retainters! A good tune, and a descent sized turbo... should easily be 350 if not more! :

 

EDIT: If you don't mind going turbo then your setup will be similar to the setup below but not the same. I was just giving you ideas on how to make the supercharger work at that power. With the turbo as it is more efficient you would be able to utilize higher boost levels and rely less on high RPM although that is how most small engines achieve large horsepower.

Assuming you want to stick with the stock block to make this power and do it safely I will share my opinion. You may not like the way that I think you should go about it but keep in mind that you are still running a supercharger that makes alot of heat:

-Forged aluminum pistons (Stock compression; you'll see why in a second)

-Crank and rods according to GM will hold the power you want as will the block.

-P&P Head w/ other machining tricks for better flow and velocity

-Valve springs (Rated to handle 8-9K RPM)

-Camshaft (custom for setup, should be high rpm oriented)

-Larger pulley on supercharger to limit boost at peak RPM down to possibly StageII 15psi, maybe a little more if you feel comfortable with it.

-Larger intake, throttle body, custom exhaust header, 3.0" Exhaust all the way back

-Cooling mods, Large H/E (Double/Triple pass), Ported blower, Methanol/Water injection etc.

-Possible fuel system modification to a return style system; better pump, CORRECTLY sized injectors.

-Our stock ignition can handle the power (Coil on plug)

-Of course a great tune to go along with all of this.

-High performance clutch, axles for high rpm launching, CABs, Solid mounts

-Drag radials

Etc. etc. etc. etc.

Anyways, this would probably be the best way to make a reliable high horsepower engine. To fight the roots blower's heat you shouldn't up compression and boost, you should up flow potential and rpm while maintaining efficient amounts of boost. I could go on and on, but this would be a good setup for a DRAG STRIP cobalt that is made to run in the high rpm range.

 

Just a turbo swap on stock internals sounds a lot easier and cheaper to me.

 

Wow! Sounds awesome, in terms of pistons why stock compression ratios? (just curious why) also assuming money isn't a problem tell me how i could get this type of power by doing it they ol fashion way. Ie. bore a stroke, (assuming there is a stroker kit for the 2.0) and all the other internals mentioned above, i'm more of an ol fashione muscle car guy myself so i'm really not in tune with the cooling mods and stuff your gonna have to elaborate on those items. but other than that i think looks like a recipe for power. There are a few cars in my town that I would just like to CREAM,!!

 

Leo, make sure that you follow your first instinct, no matter which path you choose, turbo/SC.
Build your motor completely.
Don't try to save a few $$$'s here and there. Bullit proof the engine first, then go for the power.
I have watched members try to take the "inexpensive" route only to have something fail and cost more $$$ fixing it again.
I have been told to cut a corner here and there but it isn't worth it.
When I go racing I don't want to be thinking "I hope it's going to hold"
The next suggestion is plan for all the supporting mods you will need for the power level you want. This is were I made a mistake as I never thought of all the different parts that needed to be strengthened/changed because of where I wanted to get to HP wise.
The last thing to do when planning a build, go spend some money on your wife to keep her mind off what this build is costing you. Bribery goes a long way.
If I had to add in the cost of my wife's "bribes" to my project cost, the cost is out there.

 

And when you get this motor built, then take it on the street and get outrun by someone with an even bigger "budget", what are you going to do then?

Don't let other people's ramblings get you so fired up that you'll want to spend, spend, spend Learn to laugh with 'em -- while inside you're laughing at them. Us LS owners have been doing that around SS/SC owners since the Cobalt's beginning.....JK!

 

Here is my suggestion, and it's a good one, and you really should do it.

Go get a core engine and have the shop build up that core. That way you can take your time, do it right, and still drive your car while you are building you new engine.

Trust me. For the amount of money you are going to spend (thousands), 500 bucks on a core is a good idea.

 

yeah if you want 350WHP just turbo the car and fix the fuel system. That supercharger is taking alot of HP, most the cars on here are close to 300HP, the charger is just such a drain it takes somewhere around 50-60HP with a 2.9 inch pulley.

The engine doesnt neeb to be built in order to make 350WHP. Just put a turbo on it, setup a return fuel system with a bigger fuel pump, and some 60lb injectors. Then tune accordingly. Also will need a clutch and axles for good measure.

 

Stock compression because of the extra heat and overall beating your engine will take at those power levels. The high compression pistons on top of a supercharger is a fairly extensive setup in that you will be raising the cylinder pressure level on your compression stroke. This is the same reason why we have to worry about cooling mods is because the higher heat in the cylinder can cause detonation. I'm not saying you can't do this, but it would be easier to go another route. Same thing with the stroke and bore; it would be easier to go another route.

Now, I would like to know: How much money do you have to spend. I agree with the fact that you will not want to cheap out on something like this. There are so many paths we could go down it's getting ahead of ourselves if we do not know how much money you have.

Let's say you have $5,000 dollars to spend. If that's the case, forget about 350WHP, think about 300WHP. With all supporting modifications this amount of money would force you to go turbo and utilize. On the other hand if you have $10,000 then you would be able to accomplish 350WHP with the a supercharger. Do you see where I"m going with that?

 

you should come out to the 403 & Dundas meets.. I'm sure that you will find people interested in the project

 

i think he means why not lower the compression ratio, i doubt he wants to raise it.

And for 5,000 dollars i could build a 500WHP cobalt. Stop bullshitting around, your advice is wrong.

Like ive said, right now there are a ton of 300HP cobalts on here, to run 15 PSI its taking somewhere around 50HP from the engine to turn the blower. So if your running 15 PSI on a turbo, you have instantly freed up 50HP. So a car that dynoed 245WHP with a supercharger, should dyno around 295WHP with a turbo at the same PSI.

Best route to take is a turbo, go learn to read turbo maps and find the size and AR that you require. Then go buy the rest of the parts you will need.

 

You don't know what you're talking about, and you also didn't read my whole post. I quoted that number $5,000 including all supporting modification including axles, clutch, mounts, cooling modification, engine internals, tuning; and I said that price if you use the SUPERCHARGED setup.

I never said that this is the route I would take. If it were up to me I would go turbo. Yeah you're right Jayson, it would cost around $5000 dollars to build a 400+ HP engine, but that doesn't inlude everything else you need.

Edit: He said he wants to go all out; not build the bare minimum turbo setup like you're talking about. Subtract let's say, $2,000 for supporting modifications from the 5K. Now, you're telling me that you could build a 500WHP engine with $3000 dollars You're in another world.

 

You are focusing too much on PSI and not on actual flow of the compressor, so you may not actually be right. Depending on the size of the turbo you run you may be able to achieve the same results at less PSI.

I'm not bagging on you I just want people to realize that comparing PSIs on different compressors whether it be a turbo, sc, twin screw, whatever is not a good way of looking at it.

Also you may be able to build a 500hp LSJ engine for 5k but you can't build a cobalt that will last for that. Axles, clutch, flywheel, suspension set up, and other goodies will put you way over 5k.

My advice to the thread starter is
A) don't mod for other people but mod for yourself because there is ALWAYS someone faster then you.

B) set a goal and mod correctly. Don't go bargin basement but do the build up right using quality parts and be sure to beef up the weak spots in your set up.

C) Budget extra money for failures, there is nothing routine about building a big hp engine so most likey things will break or some things won't work so you need to have some headroom in your budget for those things.

These are just the basics to any modding project but I get the feeling you need some basic advice as well as the technical stuff. Most importantly have fun, take your time, and good luck. Swapping your power adder, which is your only option here, is not a small task so be prepared for some major hurdles to clear.

 

Great Post

You're right; to the threadstarter listen to this post. Don't modify based on a list, modify based on what you want and performance theory. I agree, you're only option is to change your compressor if you want the process to be as painless as possible. And, if you're going to go big, do it right as stated. The worst case scenario would be for you to have a problem in direct correlation to a weak spot that you knew about.

I think we should start over here. Tell us what you like; do you like drag racing, road course etc. (anything that would help us understand your wants). We can then tell you what kind of setup may work well, but allow room for your opinion on power production.

 

I'm a muscle car guy, I like Torque, I like that V8 power, I own a 1970 Buick GS 455STAGE 1 With tfactory buick stage 2 heads and man does this thing DANCE! LOL, however, i recently purchased the SS/SC as a daily driver. Now, i like brute horsepower like my 455 1/4 mile. however, i'd like to have Torque, and some top end speed. but mainly a torque. I like the whole idea of built engines i don't know much about these LSJ's thats why i joined the forum. Now, I do agree that this engine gets HOT!! and does it ever, but I want a bullet proof engine just like the 455 i built i like the pure mechanincs of it, i'm not to worried about the blower now because I can always upgrade the m62 so let's leave out the kompresser. Now, i don't know (being new to the LSJ Engine) what is out there in terms of stronger, more efficient internals that are far better than stock b/c as my goal is to achieve reliable horsepower. Pistons, Bore, Stroke, P&P, sleeves, rods, cams, number one are these components available for the LSJ in the aftermarket and secondly can I make them work hand in hand to produce safe reliable HP. I want to build up this engine to allow it to perform to it's maximum potential and for me 350hp in a 4 banger is a plenty.

who even makes all those internal components for the LSJ and are they easily available or must I go custom.

Thank you all very much for your inputs and help

Leo

P.S. I AM NOT A TRUBO GUY

By the way.. I'd like to know what the LSJ is capable of, i Know of JBODYPERFORMANCE Building a 700hp Ectotec, so i am positively sure that 350WHP is very much a possibility.

Thanks folks,

Leo

 

Simple solution: drop the Buick 455 into your Cobalt and make it RWD

Stage 2 heads..factory? Extremely rare. What kind of headers do you have?

 

Custom headers. I know lol very rare i lucked out, the car had come with the stage 2 heads option for "optimal air flow" lol.

But, i wanna build up my cobalt, i just don't know whats on the market in terms of internals and who makes it, and if they will work in together to produce the HP i want.
Oh well, i can always do a custom job.

Thanks

 

Have you seen this publication?

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...P1750C194.aspx

Any chance you have the Stage 2 455 cam? -- advertised exhaust valve duration was a whopping 360 deg!

 

Edit: You may be able to use a crank from one of the other Ecotecs which would give you more displacement but it's really not a great way to make power on this engine. Read the GM article and you will see how they did it. I know there's more than one way to make power, but these are not V8s they are free revving 4 cylinders and you must treat them as such. You can still make alot of torque utilizing high rpm, it just won't be in the lower rpm range. Make the power the smart way; strong engine components, high flow heads w/ good cams etc.

If you want more torque and you are going to really strengthen up the engine then I do recommend high compression pistons. The 10:1 forged aluminums GM used is what helped them create 300+.

Okay, if that's the case then go here and read the 300HP+ LSJ Ecotec articles:

http://www.gmperformancedivision.com..._articles.aspx

Then, go to GM's performance website and they have everything you need, although in the Ecotec articles you will learn that the bottom end can already handle the power you want minus the pistons.

http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...talog_2007.pdf

 

The engine you refer to, is the one JBP is doing for me.
As far as where to get the parts it depends on your choices.
Considering you are in Toronto, I would shoot JBP and TAG emails and see what they can put together for you. Between those two shops you can decide which one works for you.
On an aside, JBP has more experience with the Ecotec and likely the only one with in depth experience, in Toronto, working on the LSJ. JBP also makes several components for our engines.

 

The Car was Born with a supercharger.. Its what makes these cars Unique, Dont Part with it, Utilize it as much as you can first..!

 

What kind of engine are you getting built by JBP?

Well, I wanna build my engine using aftermarket internals for strength, Is there aftermarket internals for the LSJ?

Are; pistons, rods, HI-PO heads, studs, ect.. available by aftermarket companies for the LSJ and if they are who are these companies that make these parts. Thanks

I wanna build an all out Mini street fighter, that can deliver a wallop of a fight against the best.

i just need to know if there are any aftermarket companies that offer internals for the LSJ and who are they?

Thank you for all your help,

Leo

 

I don't get your post at all...

You're comparing apples and oranges. If you want V8 power, buy a car with a V8. If you want big power out of your LSJ, you're going to have to do with forced induction. Sorry but your M62 (even with a built motor...) won't do it.

I don't understand the negative aspect of going turbocharged and typically people who say "No turbocharging" haven't done enough research behind it...not labeling you but just stating what I've seen.

The 700 HP ECOTEC that JBP is making is for if you're going to be TURBOCHARGED, it's not a N/A motor that makes 700 HP. It's built to handle alot of stress but the turbo setup seperately is something you have to design or have someone help you design.

 

What if i took my engine to my local engine shop/ the same guy who built my 455 do you think he can squeeze the pony's i'm lookin for?