i bought an LT so when decent tuning is released i can turbocharge my car. not a huge fan of superchargers but from the factory its a nice addition, and i also dont believe that much in this twin charge system

 

the only proble you would i have that i see is controlling the computer. air is air and im sure it will feed off all the air

 

for everyone saying "how easy will this be? so can my stage II work with this? yadda yadda"

guys... running SC and TC is not a simple thing. this is obviously going to be a full kit with some extensive work. in tuner terms "NOT A BOLT ON". things are not as simple as having a stage II gm kit or an Intense kit and adding a turbo for more power. i dont even want to explain cuz common sense covers it pretty well.

as for this topic.... OMFG helllz yeah. i think i'll hold out on spending any more money until i hear more about this kit. finally the cobalt is getting some serious hp upgrades (just a straight turbo will be amazing). i kno ppl have been talking about switching the sc for a turbo for a long time. now it's going to happen. not to mention, the twincharge kit is actually going to be in production.

 

I said it, still saying it, and will ALWAYS say it. It is NOT a mass market item, PERIOD.

How do you plan on bypassing the SC when the turbo comes on full boost?????

I hope you don't plan on forcing it into the SC????

 

so you dont like the idea of twincharging Fast06SS? i think its alot of problems involved to. but still cool

 

you bypass the supercharger with a clutching system i believe?? am i wrong?

 

In a SC, most the boost pick up is instant, and there is little to no boost gain after you reach instant boost. A perfect example of that is in my ss. My car boosts to about 15 psi instantly, but doent reach its peak psi of 16-17 until my rpms are near redline.

In a turbo setup its the opposite. Turbos dont boost max until their rpms get up past a certain level, then they have a consistant max boost.

 

Turbos ONLY have consistent boost if you have a properly designed and built wastegate set-up. Otherwise it will to continue to climb as well!! Duh!

 

No i don't. If it was so good you would see it in drag cars everywhere! Everyone that i have seen built other than 1 or 2 have been trailer/show cars.

 

So you admit that you don't know how well these will or will not work because you have no personal experience with them at all and this is just your personal opinion? Just because race cars don't use them really doesn't mean it won't work and remember we (I) are not building a race car.
People once used to say that we would never be able to fly. That didn't stop the Wright brothers did it?

 

I don't think it is a personaly hit on you man, he just doesnt like the idea of it, just his opinion.

 

I think it has potential since the twincharged redline hit 330whp with minor tuning and stock internals. Put in 10.5:1 pistons and tune the living hell out of it, granted you would still need a 3.8" pulley on the supercharger.

 

I know it's not personal just as my response isn't personal either. None of us as all the answers and each of us can also be wrong on things even with things close to where our expertise lies. I asked Bill Hahn in the other thread to chime in about twincharging specifically.

 

why would you need the 3.8. I thought the 3.8 was used because the turbo was doing most of the work and that the stock internals couldnt handle the boost with a smaller?

Tru. I was just trying to keep the peace between our 2 cobalt pioneers

 

That would be my thoughts also.

As for Rob he has helped me already in this project by helping me understand HPTuners through his log files. All is good.

 

3.8 is to keep the pressure ratio down so the turbo can make enough boost to be in its max efficiency range without making 42psi for the motor becuase the s.c is spinning too fast...just makes everythign more efficient and keeps thigns from going on a hiroshiima scale explosion path

 

I C, but this is still so the stock internals can handle it correct? With internals you would be able to switch to a smaller pulley and raise the level of efficiency of the turbo?

 

Well then you go back in the argument if you have too small of a pulley and the internals are spinning extremely extremely fast, how do you expect the turbo to get its max capability to push into the s/c?

 

you guys need to understand that you need to lower the boost on the supercharger to have decent boost on the turbo. if you run stock boost on the supercharger and about 18 psi on the turbo, thats 30 psi do you think that even after you build the engine that the block will hold that pressure. you have to build that block as well as the head for it to run right. thats just my two cents.

 

I agree with Rob, and have yet to see one of these kits be reliable. From what I've seen, they require alot of upkeep, and tinkering. ZZP has a twincharge kit on their grand prix, and I remember them always having problems with theirs.

As for using both, guys, the concept of having the supercharger AND turbo is just to get rid of the turbo lag. If it works correctly, you'd only need ~8psi or so. You want to run just enough boost out of the supercharger, to get the turbo spooling. If you want 20psi with no lag, have 5psi from the supercharger, and 15psi from the turbo. That's the IDEA, anyway. But again, these always end up being a problem more than anything. Think about this: They were talking about a twincharge kit when this car first came out. Gravana was going to do one and never did. Don't you think that if the "twincharge" idea was so great, that it would be on out by now for one, and on alot of other cars? It is much easier to go just straight turbo, and more reliable. Just my opinion.

 

Kinda...if u didnt run a small pulley ud have to run like 4psi from turbo to blower puttig the turbo way outta its efficiency. The blower is still efficient at 9psi ish...very much so and the turbo is efficient at 11psi ish.

See basically the s/c will multiply the boost. So a smaller pulley runs setup more efficiently...and a prevents ludcris amount of boost...tho if motor was built for it its be really easy to make 42 psi with 11psi torbo to blower and like a 2.8 " pulley

 

If turbo hits down low and has little lag time I am in for all turbo. I can see that perhaps the twin charged will give you a significant power increase (although it is limited) and keeping the throttle response of the supercharged motor. But that will take some discussion with hahn to see if I can hit my HP target with twin charged and what are the characteristics of the all turbo motor. I like to see a dyno comparison.

 

as i understood it the sc on the car doesn't compress air the way other superchargers do. if that is the case then running a smaller sc pulley will only have the affect of moving the air faster rather than compressing the air even more as that would cause stupid amounts of heat right?

 

a eaton is a air mover.

It moves air into the intake manifaster than teh car can use it makig the pressure build up mkaing boost. If the air is pressurized coming into the blower then u have more air mass then if it wasnt so ur adding more air to an already over packed space...bes way I can thik of to describe it

and ultra low heat since innefficiency creates heat and ur runing both at their most efficient ranges

 

You cannot compare our cars with drag cars. this is for the street and does more than one thing other then to try to go fast.

A dragster has only one purpose. go real fast. and it does so with alcohol, aluminum block with no water jacket (yeah they dont have a rad or anything, they stay cool for the run due to being a alcohol burner).

Point being it is totally different game all together. plus what are you building for. build your car the way you want. If you go drag then go turbo. If you like a hard hit down low without the turbo lag (like a 125cc two stroke motocrosser) than go turbo.

If the turbo lag is not bad with the Hahn setup I may do that! we shall see.