Twinscrew Current Dyno Numbers & Issues
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Joined: 08-19-05
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From: Horseheads, NY
Ok, before this thread goes to hell in a hand bag. PLEASE READ ALL THE INFORMATION PRESENTED BEFORE YOU!
Pull#1: The car made right near 200whp and shitty torque when the first pull was done. The reason was that the water/methanol was just pouring into the car and bogging it down. Remember I just installed it today. The car was pig rich too dispite my street tuning efforts.
Pull#2: Looked at the timing table as it was SCREWED royally. Added 2* from .80g/cyl to 1.36g/cyl and starting at 3000rpms all the way to redline. The car made 270WHP and 230 WTRQ! Holy crap what an inprovement over the first pull.
Pull#3: Minor changes in some other areas to get it running better netted just a bit more power in the 272whp area.
Pull#4: The trouble run. The methanol kit got screwed up somehow and dumped 2 quarts of meth/water mix into the engine and bogged it to holy hell and luckily didn't destroy my motor somehow! I will have to trouble shoot it some more, but I checked the pump/solenoid/connections and they are all fine. I think it has to do with the jet, but I'll have to remove the blower to check that out after my 2 week TDY. I disabled the meth kit and we proceeded onward.
Pull#5: We went to my street tune without the meth and it made 250whp and a bit over 200wtrq. REMEBER WITHOUT METHANOL AND A SCREWED TIMNG TABLE.
Final Disposition: After some timing table corrections (20* without meth!), knock sensor refinements we made 260WHP and 226WTRQ without the methanol. We got in contact with the head tuner and HPTuners and he confirmed what we knew was happening with the knock sensor, the blower is causing the car to see false knock because it makes so much noise along with my 6-Puck clutch. What is needed is a way to adjust the tolerance to avoid this false knock, and allow the car to make power without it thinking it has knock and pulling timing. The next version or so of HPtuners will include this feature since the GTO's had the same issue apparently. Your welcome for the future hookup gents with HPTuners .
Not too shabby considering there is a huge amount of room for improvement in the timing table and a bit in the A/F ratio still, but after all the hiccups it was 8:00PM and time to shut things down.
Now, I have to give mad props to Colin at the Show Zone, Ladson Rd., South Carolina for letting me use the dyno for about 4+ hours. He did things with HPTuners and taught me so much stuff today it wasn't funny. I got a crazy hookup as well since he was so interested in helping me out with project. Colin stated with more time without the methanol we could have made at least 285WHP and when I get the meth situation worked out he said he knows the car will have around 350WHP!
Oh, and last but not least I got to drive and R32 Skyline GT-R as I put it inside for the evening. That car is freaking awesome! WOOT!
Pull#1: The car made right near 200whp and shitty torque when the first pull was done. The reason was that the water/methanol was just pouring into the car and bogging it down. Remember I just installed it today. The car was pig rich too dispite my street tuning efforts.
Pull#2: Looked at the timing table as it was SCREWED royally. Added 2* from .80g/cyl to 1.36g/cyl and starting at 3000rpms all the way to redline. The car made 270WHP and 230 WTRQ! Holy crap what an inprovement over the first pull.
Pull#3: Minor changes in some other areas to get it running better netted just a bit more power in the 272whp area.
Pull#4: The trouble run. The methanol kit got screwed up somehow and dumped 2 quarts of meth/water mix into the engine and bogged it to holy hell and luckily didn't destroy my motor somehow! I will have to trouble shoot it some more, but I checked the pump/solenoid/connections and they are all fine. I think it has to do with the jet, but I'll have to remove the blower to check that out after my 2 week TDY. I disabled the meth kit and we proceeded onward.
Pull#5: We went to my street tune without the meth and it made 250whp and a bit over 200wtrq. REMEBER WITHOUT METHANOL AND A SCREWED TIMNG TABLE.
Final Disposition: After some timing table corrections (20* without meth!), knock sensor refinements we made 260WHP and 226WTRQ without the methanol. We got in contact with the head tuner and HPTuners and he confirmed what we knew was happening with the knock sensor, the blower is causing the car to see false knock because it makes so much noise along with my 6-Puck clutch. What is needed is a way to adjust the tolerance to avoid this false knock, and allow the car to make power without it thinking it has knock and pulling timing. The next version or so of HPtuners will include this feature since the GTO's had the same issue apparently. Your welcome for the future hookup gents with HPTuners .
Not too shabby considering there is a huge amount of room for improvement in the timing table and a bit in the A/F ratio still, but after all the hiccups it was 8:00PM and time to shut things down.Now, I have to give mad props to Colin at the Show Zone, Ladson Rd., South Carolina for letting me use the dyno for about 4+ hours. He did things with HPTuners and taught me so much stuff today it wasn't funny. I got a crazy hookup as well since he was so interested in helping me out with project. Colin stated with more time without the methanol we could have made at least 285WHP and when I get the meth situation worked out he said he knows the car will have around 350WHP!
Oh, and last but not least I got to drive and R32 Skyline GT-R as I put it inside for the evening. That car is freaking awesome! WOOT!
You have the exedy right? I have the exedy AND a solid top motor mount (metal on metal) +intense trans mounts and I have 0 false knock readings. Your clutch is definately not a factor of false knock and I seriously doubt the blower is.
You shouldnt need meth until over 23psi. I ran 21 psi and 19 deg of timing on my turbo on pump gas and made 305 whp on a mustang style dyno with a shitty tune (huge afr fluxuations due to blow thru maf sensor...lost 25whp in the mid range due to that spike)
We didn't use meth on our Dyno runs and tuning.
Considering he made 199whp with an intake on the same dyno.
I'd would be inclined to add 10% to his current dumbers to get dynojet numbers
Which would be right At 300whp with a rich tune and no timing 15-16 degress..
When he gets the meth worked out 350whp should be in the bag
Considering he made 199whp with an intake on the same dyno.
I'd would be inclined to add 10% to his current dumbers to get dynojet numbers
Which would be right At 300whp with a rich tune and no timing 15-16 degress..
When he gets the meth worked out 350whp should be in the bag
Yeah congrats anyway for the numbers. You should definitely get the car tune before any methanol. You'll probably see 300whp on that Mustang dyno soon. One problem on that car at 300+ WHP level is the unefficiency of the stock head. So what spark plugs and gap are you running ?
Thanks for the positive posts gents. I promise that this is not the last of twinscrew, and all of it's potential will shine soon enough. That 272WHP was just the bottom of the barrel with the methanol when it's added to the mix. There was a ton of timing and A/F tuning to go all over the place as timing was at only 17-19* and the A/F was around 10.9 - 11.1 across the board on that run. It was also about 90*+ inside the bay where the car was dyno'd. The coolant went up to 210* at one point, so we had to let her cool down awhile. Just some minor set backs, but a least my engine didn't blow from the meth mix being dumped in there! that's what I'm really happy with right now more than anything!
As a side note just to **** the rest of my day off the guy at the Sonic dumped a Route 44 Ocean Water and a Large coke on the side of my car when I went to grab some grub an hour ago!
I just washed the damn car today too! 
I guess if it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all!
As a side note just to **** the rest of my day off the guy at the Sonic dumped a Route 44 Ocean Water and a Large coke on the side of my car when I went to grab some grub an hour ago!
I just washed the damn car today too! I guess if it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all!
Awesome job so far, I can see good things in the future for this setup!
One thing you mentioned worries me though. I don't think de-sensitizing the knock sensor is a good idea. That sensor is there to protect your car and it is very sensitive for a reason. By messing with it, your eliminating the false knock, but your also preventing it from detecting actual knock as well. Just be careful when you playing with things like that.
One thing you mentioned worries me though. I don't think de-sensitizing the knock sensor is a good idea. That sensor is there to protect your car and it is very sensitive for a reason. By messing with it, your eliminating the false knock, but your also preventing it from detecting actual knock as well. Just be careful when you playing with things like that.
we made 280whp and 270wtq on a dynojet at 5700rpm on a stock cobalt running the Twin Screw. We claimed with an exhaust it should make 300whp at 7000rpm. I think we can say we have proven this.
The reason 2K5SS/SC? has to tweak his tune is because he's nothing close to stock before slapping on the kit.
Great job so far it's always a battle with the things you never think of.
The reason 2K5SS/SC? has to tweak his tune is because he's nothing close to stock before slapping on the kit.
Great job so far
it's always a battle with the things you never think of.Is it true that allthough the twinscrew reduces heat and increases power, is it allready running beyond its efficiency range in RPM? This is what i heard im looking for data to say other wise. Could someone tell me what the crank on the 2.0 is so i can do the math and find out if it is in or out of it range?
On the same Mustang dyno I laid down 197WHP with the injen intake. With Stage 2 and an exhaust added I remember making around 212WHP. With my 2.6" pulley, header, and all the other crap on the car without the dual pass or methanol injection I made 238WHP and 230WTRQ. Rolling off the dyno with and unfinished tune without methanol and laying down 260WHP and 226WHP is still an improvement over my last run. The car runs so much better on the street now it's not funny. The powerband is a lot smoother and the car tends not to be so jerky now.
Take a look at the dyno graph from yesterday. The higher run is just before the meth blow out incident. The one below it is a decent tune that was done in a short amount of time, and the one I left the dyno with. The torque curve shows that between 2473 and 4400 that we can still add timing to bump up those numbers and smooth out that section to broaden the torque curve. Yes, even know the car was heatsoaked, it still made power up to redline whereas my eaton was peaking at around 6500rpms and certainly would have not allowed the timing we are running with the car at the moment without methanol.
Take a look at the dyno graph from yesterday. The higher run is just before the meth blow out incident. The one below it is a decent tune that was done in a short amount of time, and the one I left the dyno with. The torque curve shows that between 2473 and 4400 that we can still add timing to bump up those numbers and smooth out that section to broaden the torque curve. Yes, even know the car was heatsoaked, it still made power up to redline whereas my eaton was peaking at around 6500rpms and certainly would have not allowed the timing we are running with the car at the moment without methanol.
i would definately not say you have acheived anything , all you guys have acheived was almost hydrolocking the motor , ive seen cobalts dyno higher with the M62 , not knocking your project just not impressed
2500$ to dyno MAYBE 20-30 more WHP isnt exactly worth it IMO
2500$ to dyno MAYBE 20-30 more WHP isnt exactly worth it IMO
That guy never Produced a Dyno Graph ever.. Total BS.
I've seen a stage 2 car Put down 273hp on a mustang dyno. Dyno's are tools for tuning plan and simple.
If you wanna go dyno racing there are ways to fudge the numbers.We DO NOT!
I've Personally dyno'd over 40 cobalts on the dyno and 100's of other cars that weren't cobalts. I've seen that same car go to another dyno and make 15-20% more or less.
We would have finished the tuning on the twin screw ourselves, but do not have a car with a clutch in it to take the power it is making. The stock clutch is not up to the power this kit is making thus we sent out the first kit to 2K5SS/SC?
The Kit is a direct bolt on you Unbolt and re-bolt. The tune is still being developed, you have to understand that the twin screw is nothing like the M62 interms of tuning.
We ask that everyone be patient with us and 2K5SS/SC?. He is busting his ass to get things tuned up right.
I've seen a stage 2 car Put down 273hp on a mustang dyno. Dyno's are tools for tuning plan and simple.
If you wanna go dyno racing there are ways to fudge the numbers.We DO NOT!
I've Personally dyno'd over 40 cobalts on the dyno and 100's of other cars that weren't cobalts. I've seen that same car go to another dyno and make 15-20% more or less.
We would have finished the tuning on the twin screw ourselves, but do not have a car with a clutch in it to take the power it is making. The stock clutch is not up to the power this kit is making thus we sent out the first kit to 2K5SS/SC?
The Kit is a direct bolt on you Unbolt and re-bolt. The tune is still being developed, you have to understand that the twin screw is nothing like the M62 interms of tuning.
We ask that everyone be patient with us and 2K5SS/SC?. He is busting his ass to get things tuned up right.
Please show us some M62's Cobalt dynoed more than 272 WHP on a MUSTANG dyno. Where are the graphs ???
Secondly, to evaluate properly the amount of power it gives over the M62 with an IDENTICAL setup, you must compare numbers coming from the same dyno. This has been said tons of time.
Finally, your post was so unrealistic and pessimist, that if I would be a moderator, I would at least delete your post or at worst banned you.
Secondly, to evaluate properly the amount of power it gives over the M62 with an IDENTICAL setup, you must compare numbers coming from the same dyno. This has been said tons of time.
Finally, your post was so unrealistic and pessimist, that if I would be a moderator, I would at least delete your post or at worst banned you.
Im tired of seeing speculation and for that reason have given my responses to the above posts. Enjoy
Dan
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Joined: 10-06-05
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From: Seneca, South Carolina
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l-lsj-performance-tech-47/272whp-dyno-chart-2-8-pulley-71965/
I'm not trying to jump on the bandwagon of haters, BUT, look at zinner's post. he made the same whp and MORE tq on a MUSTANG DYNO with only 2.8 pulley, 60's, and exhaust work.
I'm not trying to jump on the bandwagon of haters, BUT, look at zinner's post. he made the same whp and MORE tq on a MUSTANG DYNO with only 2.8 pulley, 60's, and exhaust work.
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From: Oceanside, Ca
I would prefer a company finishes their own tuning and development then to pass it onto a customer. I dont know why your even selling the kit when the tune isnt even done yet. BTW ZZP claims over 270whp on a 2.8 M62 car tho I am semi skeptical due to lack of mods listed. Tho it is a mustang dyno. They just started the thread a few days ago. Tho only track numbers will tell the truth. Its easy to make dyno lie.
Dan
Dan
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From: Ottawa
BTW all cams out for the SS are **** unless they're custom.
Im bettin thats not gonna happen
Last edited by p7x; Aug 19, 2007 at 02:14 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I'm glad that some people here understand that dyno's should be used as a tool, and not something to brag about.
Last year when I dyno'd, I was making 250hp and 240ft/lbs torque.
Same dyno when I was stock was 225hp 192ft/lbs
I did some more mods, then went to a different dyno and got 225hp, I forget how much tq at the moment.
Just to show how much of a difference just using a different dyno can be
Last year when I dyno'd, I was making 250hp and 240ft/lbs torque.
Same dyno when I was stock was 225hp 192ft/lbs
I did some more mods, then went to a different dyno and got 225hp, I forget how much tq at the moment.
Just to show how much of a difference just using a different dyno can be
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From: Douglasville, Georgia
what do u mean. Were the ones all pissed off because its not here yet. there just saying put your payment down because it will take 3 weeks to get it. Its a any day now project. Luckily we have a test guy that is sharing every bit of information with us for a update. Id rather see the project progress than to hear. HERE IT IS
If it comes to it 2KSS/SC? just dont say anything else until its done. all this is doing is making more speculations. Thanks for dealing with Cobaltss.net Rebel Autoworks
If it comes to it 2KSS/SC? just dont say anything else until its done. all this is doing is making more speculations. Thanks for dealing with Cobaltss.net Rebel Autoworks
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
because the stock S/C is super inefficent and he dynoed 296whp but I bet he was only a month away from blowin up. ppl think its weak internals that is the problem but its HEAT. So if U wanna make over 300whp reliably you have to spend the money on the twinscrew or turbo, ported head would be good to, i agree with ya there.
BTW all cams out for the SS are **** unless they're custom.
BTW all cams out for the SS are **** unless they're custom.
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From: Rebel Land
It's pointless to argue with everyone on here about this or that.
Wait till the upcoming week is done..is all I have to say...
Not everyone is a super tuner. Btw we Had our turbo car tuned in one night on the street using a blow thru maff setup with no issues.
People Bitch when the product isn't done. The Product is done and getting tuned people still bitch.. Regardless If anyone needs anything technical answered Please feel free to Pm Other wise I'm done with this thread..
We work real hard try to deliver great products that actuall do as they claim. I Pride myself on being very fair and trying to add value to the cobalt community.I'm not here to RIP people off with **** products never had never will.
End of rant...
Wait till the upcoming week is done..is all I have to say...
Not everyone is a super tuner. Btw we Had our turbo car tuned in one night on the street using a blow thru maff setup with no issues.
People Bitch when the product isn't done. The Product is done and getting tuned people still bitch.. Regardless If anyone needs anything technical answered Please feel free to Pm Other wise I'm done with this thread..
We work real hard try to deliver great products that actuall do as they claim. I Pride myself on being very fair and trying to add value to the cobalt community.I'm not here to RIP people off with **** products never had never will.
End of rant...
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From: Ottawa
Honestly this is why I give credit to all you guys running 2.5's and guys willing to pave the road maxing out the m62 and swapping for the TS like 2K5 but if I decided to swap out the m62 theres only one thing I'd replace it with, turbo. Never seen a IAT2 higher than 115 on the turbo balt.
Heat will be the end of all LSJ's
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From: Ottawa
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From: Horseheads, NY
because the stock S/C is super inefficent and he dynoed 296whp but I bet he was only a month away from blowin up. ppl think its weak internals that is the problem but its HEAT. So if U wanna make over 300whp reliably you have to spend the money on the twinscrew or turbo, ported head would be good to, i agree with ya there.
BTW all cams out for the SS are **** unless they're custom.
Im bettin thats not gonna happen
BTW all cams out for the SS are **** unless they're custom.
Im bettin thats not gonna happen
It's pointless to argue with everyone on here about this or that.
Wait till the upcoming week is done..is all I have to say...
Not everyone is a super tuner. Btw we Had our turbo car tuned in one night on the street using a blow thru maff setup with no issues.
People Bitch when the product isn't done. The Product is done and getting tuned people still bitch.. Regardless If anyone needs anything technical answered Please feel free to Pm Other wise I'm done with this thread..
We work real hard try to deliver great products that actuall do as they claim. I Pride myself on being very fair and trying to add value to the cobalt community.I'm not here to RIP people off with **** products never had never will.
End of rant...
Wait till the upcoming week is done..is all I have to say...
Not everyone is a super tuner. Btw we Had our turbo car tuned in one night on the street using a blow thru maff setup with no issues.
People Bitch when the product isn't done. The Product is done and getting tuned people still bitch.. Regardless If anyone needs anything technical answered Please feel free to Pm Other wise I'm done with this thread..
We work real hard try to deliver great products that actuall do as they claim. I Pride myself on being very fair and trying to add value to the cobalt community.I'm not here to RIP people off with **** products never had never will.
End of rant...
And the reason why ppl are bitching is because you've been promising great results for a month now but have only been showing lack luster results. Every thread is full of new and old excuses as to why it doesn't work.
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From: Ottawa
do u read ur own posts?
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Heat is not a problem. The motor sustains 1400deg inside the motor. The real problem is improper tuning. Ultra rich AFRs, too low timing, too much timing all create ultra high cylinder temperatures and/or excessive knock which destroy the pistons
Where are your dyno charts? Was it tuned as well as the twinscrew was...not being able to go past 5800? If you are talking about the tag setup Ive seen pics of it in both blow thru and draw thru setup. That 1 customer outcast or w/e definately has a draw thru as evidenced thru his recirculating BOV and maf in the intake pipe.
And the reason why ppl are bitching is because you've been promising great results for a month now but have only been showing lack luster results. Every thread is full of new and old excuses as to why it doesn't work.
Where are your dyno charts? Was it tuned as well as the twinscrew was...not being able to go past 5800? If you are talking about the tag setup Ive seen pics of it in both blow thru and draw thru setup. That 1 customer outcast or w/e definately has a draw thru as evidenced thru his recirculating BOV and maf in the intake pipe.
And the reason why ppl are bitching is because you've been promising great results for a month now but have only been showing lack luster results. Every thread is full of new and old excuses as to why it doesn't work.
^^^^^^
the reason arguements are started,
just let it be and see what they post at the end of the week. there just seems to be some tuneing issues with the TS.
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From: St. Louis
Of course you'd need to have a major mod like this tuned you rookie!
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
