Wideband question
02-11-2011, 12:23 AM
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Wideband question
Soon I will be installing mods to my lsj and I was wondering something about the d/p. I was looking at the zzp catted d/p and my question is this. To my understanding the wideband sensor is a valuable part in aftermarket tuning. does this mean that I should have the wideband bung installed so i can get a wideband 02 sensor and so it can be used to tune my car to get rid of the canned tune?
02-11-2011, 01:42 AM
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If youre getting the catted dp, then i would say get the additional bung welded in. If you were going catless then you could just use the secondary bung for the wideband sensor, but you dont want the wideband sensor post cat, it will do no good and it could ruin the sensor; it ruined the one that came on my car cuz the dipshits at the dealership put in the factory lsj dp since it was catless from the previous owner, and they put the wideband sensor in the secondary bung (post cat) and i had to get a new wideband sensor and its pretty pointless after the cat anyway, you can approximate the AFR but thats just half assing it
02-11-2011, 08:57 AM
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hmm maybe I will just got cat-less and have them delete the O2 in the pcm. Otherwise stock exhaust so it shouldn't be getting me tickets.... at least I hope
Problem is either way I go I wont be able to pick up a wideband yet... so its almost worthless to get a new d/p either way. Unless I plug the extra bung hole for now...
Problem is either way I go I wont be able to pick up a wideband yet... so its almost worthless to get a new d/p either way. Unless I plug the extra bung hole for now...
02-11-2011, 04:26 PM
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You dont really know this lol i didnt konw mine was fried until i gutted the cat, then did a pull and my wideband was reading 12.8 at WOT...not even close to correct, but it read "correctly" before i took out the cat. Once i got a replacement sensor, before a retune, my AFR was 11.7 pretty much all the way to redline. So i got lucky because my tuner is experienced knows his **** and compensated correctly.
Even if your sensor is still functional, your wideband isnt really useful for tuning the way it should be. Its better than nothing and can be used tto approximate, but you cant really dial in the AFR like it should be with the sensor post cat
But if you have a canned tune, and you dont really care, then it doesnt really matter i guess
Ideally you want the wideband sensor in the downpipe section, and by that i mean the section or portion that is sloping downward, somewhere in there is good, but too far up and too close to the exhaust ports and youll fry the sensor, so "downstream" in the secondary bung is a good "makeshift" spot and theres really nothing wrong with it being there...from my experiences and to my knowledge anyway, i couldnt really tell you how much of a difference, if theres a difference at all, so if im wrong someone feel free to correct that lol but i dont think the little extra distance to the secondary bung matters
Even if your sensor is still functional, your wideband isnt really useful for tuning the way it should be. Its better than nothing and can be used tto approximate, but you cant really dial in the AFR like it should be with the sensor post cat
But if you have a canned tune, and you dont really care, then it doesnt really matter i guess
Ideally you want the wideband sensor in the downpipe section, and by that i mean the section or portion that is sloping downward, somewhere in there is good, but too far up and too close to the exhaust ports and youll fry the sensor, so "downstream" in the secondary bung is a good "makeshift" spot and theres really nothing wrong with it being there...from my experiences and to my knowledge anyway, i couldnt really tell you how much of a difference, if theres a difference at all, so if im wrong someone feel free to correct that lol but i dont think the little extra distance to the secondary bung matters
02-11-2011, 06:56 PM
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Yea i realize the difference as to where they are placed, im just not sure if there is a difference or not or how much of a difference it does make if there is a difference.
02-12-2011, 01:02 AM
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Befiore I installed it, I kinda wondered about the placement being after the Catty, if it would affect its accuracy....
But it seems to work,
When I go down hill, it goes up to 19.8 and when I start it up, it goes to 12 like most when you start cold you run rich, and then goes up and hangs out arround 14.7 when running.
Maybe once I get my exhaust system ill have it placed before catty.
But it seems to work,
When I go down hill, it goes up to 19.8 and when I start it up, it goes to 12 like most when you start cold you run rich, and then goes up and hangs out arround 14.7 when running.
Maybe once I get my exhaust system ill have it placed before catty.
02-12-2011, 05:42 PM
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Befiore I installed it, I kinda wondered about the placement being after the Catty, if it would affect its accuracy....
But it seems to work,
When I go down hill, it goes up to 19.8 and when I start it up, it goes to 12 like most when you start cold you run rich, and then goes up and hangs out arround 14.7 when running.
Maybe once I get my exhaust system ill have it placed before catty.
But it seems to work,
When I go down hill, it goes up to 19.8 and when I start it up, it goes to 12 like most when you start cold you run rich, and then goes up and hangs out arround 14.7 when running.
Maybe once I get my exhaust system ill have it placed before catty.
So basically with the sensor post cat you wont notice it under normal driving conditions but at WOT you wont really know exactly what youre AFR is.
I read up on this back when i realized mine was post cat to see how the cat affects the air/fuel mixture...i found stuff basically saying that the cat will remove some of the unburnt fuel and thus the sensor will pick up/show a more lean mixture or AFR....
I also read somewhere else that because the cat remove parts of the harmful emissions, during this process the cat converts the carbon dioxide to carbon monoxide or something along these lines, thus removing part of the oxygen from the fuel and the sensor will pick up/display a more rich mixture or AFR than it really is....
Idk which idea or theory is correct, i was initially under the impression that it would read more lean but i dont know for sure; i want to say my AFR was around 11.5 when i was tuned with the wideband post cat and then when we gutted the cat and i got a new bosch sensor that the wideband read 11.7/11.8...but i dont remember for sure
Any one else feel free to chime in on these theories or correct where im wrong etc
02-13-2011, 12:13 AM
#18
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That all make sence...
Some of that stuff I wondered about when I first put mine in. I did notice that when I went from my K&N Typhooon, to my ZZP 3" that my AFR fluctuates alot more then it did with the Typhoon. (No retune) but my Long Term Trims went up from -17 to -12.
Ya, WOT My AFR Read after Cat, reads arround 11 to 13 depending. Normalyl Im not watching it when im WOT, my eyes are on the road. Maybe tomarrow ill set up my interceptor so it records my AFR and RPM so I can WOT and see what happens
Some of that stuff I wondered about when I first put mine in. I did notice that when I went from my K&N Typhooon, to my ZZP 3" that my AFR fluctuates alot more then it did with the Typhoon. (No retune) but my Long Term Trims went up from -17 to -12.
Ya, WOT My AFR Read after Cat, reads arround 11 to 13 depending. Normalyl Im not watching it when im WOT, my eyes are on the road. Maybe tomarrow ill set up my interceptor so it records my AFR and RPM so I can WOT and see what happens
You wont really notice a difference under normal driving conditions because its fluctuating around 14.7 while driving normal, its not really pinpoint on anything specific, the PCM is adjusting constantly and its in a closed loop; when you let off the throttle and it goes into DFCO it will read really lean or the " --- " on the wideband. When youre in WOT youre in an open loop and the fueling is all controlled in the tune, its going to read consistent because youre dumping a certain amount of fuel in and the sensor is picking up the mixture of air to fuel; this is when you need the wideband and you want to dial in on a specific AFR or very close to that, with the wideband post cat you cant do this and you will only be approximating and making compensations.
So basically with the sensor post cat you wont notice it under normal driving conditions but at WOT you wont really know exactly what youre AFR is.
I read up on this back when i realized mine was post cat to see how the cat affects the air/fuel mixture...i found stuff basically saying that the cat will remove some of the unburnt fuel and thus the sensor will pick up/show a more lean mixture or AFR....
I also read somewhere else that because the cat remove parts of the harmful emissions, during this process the cat converts the carbon dioxide to carbon monoxide or something along these lines, thus removing part of the oxygen from the fuel and the sensor will pick up/display a more rich mixture or AFR than it really is....
Idk which idea or theory is correct, i was initially under the impression that it would read more lean but i dont know for sure; i want to say my AFR was around 11.5 when i was tuned with the wideband post cat and then when we gutted the cat and i got a new bosch sensor that the wideband read 11.7/11.8...but i dont remember for sure
Any one else feel free to chime in on these theories or correct where im wrong etc
So basically with the sensor post cat you wont notice it under normal driving conditions but at WOT you wont really know exactly what youre AFR is.
I read up on this back when i realized mine was post cat to see how the cat affects the air/fuel mixture...i found stuff basically saying that the cat will remove some of the unburnt fuel and thus the sensor will pick up/show a more lean mixture or AFR....
I also read somewhere else that because the cat remove parts of the harmful emissions, during this process the cat converts the carbon dioxide to carbon monoxide or something along these lines, thus removing part of the oxygen from the fuel and the sensor will pick up/display a more rich mixture or AFR than it really is....
Idk which idea or theory is correct, i was initially under the impression that it would read more lean but i dont know for sure; i want to say my AFR was around 11.5 when i was tuned with the wideband post cat and then when we gutted the cat and i got a new bosch sensor that the wideband read 11.7/11.8...but i dont remember for sure
Any one else feel free to chime in on these theories or correct where im wrong etc
02-13-2011, 03:19 PM
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That all make sence...
Some of that stuff I wondered about when I first put mine in. I did notice that when I went from my K&N Typhooon, to my ZZP 3" that my AFR fluctuates alot more then it did with the Typhoon. (No retune) but my Long Term Trims went up from -17 to -12.
Ya, WOT My AFR Read after Cat, reads arround 11 to 13 depending. Normalyl Im not watching it when im WOT, my eyes are on the road. Maybe tomarrow ill set up my interceptor so it records my AFR and RPM so I can WOT and see what happens
Some of that stuff I wondered about when I first put mine in. I did notice that when I went from my K&N Typhooon, to my ZZP 3" that my AFR fluctuates alot more then it did with the Typhoon. (No retune) but my Long Term Trims went up from -17 to -12.
Ya, WOT My AFR Read after Cat, reads arround 11 to 13 depending. Normalyl Im not watching it when im WOT, my eyes are on the road. Maybe tomarrow ill set up my interceptor so it records my AFR and RPM so I can WOT and see what happens
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