What wrong with All-Motor?

193whp and still counting...

13.3@99mph in the 1/4 and still falling...


A 200whp All-Motor car is 1000x funner to drive than a 200whp boosted car.....trust me.

Once you get over the cool fast and furious sound effects and impressing your friends cause your car is "boosted"....its easy to see why people like the challange (and in turn, rewards) of building an all-motor car.

soundjunky - Those Quad 4's are serious motors, 190hp all-motor out of a 2.3L back in the early 90's was quite the feat. I've worked on them before and what a pain in the ass tho...haha You really appreciate the simplicity of the Ecotec.

That Grand-Am is narly tho, thats how everything should sound

 

193hp! ~ wow, I think that's the high water mark I've seen so far for n/a ecotecs!

I applaud your work!

... I just don't get it how people dedicated to building an n/a motor don't get respect

 

thank you....finally someone else who shares my point of view with building up the n/a cars

 

come on Steve!?! ~ you would never get any scoffing from me...

I suspect the key he has going for him is the lack of VVT and older gen L61 ECM...
(which means that functionally, it's as though he's running a stroked/large bore 2.2L - with an upgraded head.

@ Newt - do you have a "build" thread here, or somewhere else? (like j-body.org)

 

I sure do...

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/adva...thread-239470/

My cams suck ***** right now, peak HP was at only 6225rpm.

New cams next year and a few other mods, hopefully get into the 12's, which has yet to be done in a j-body.

 

well i know you wouldn't. i was more referring to the rest of CSS lol.

nobody said that building up an N/A 2.4 was going to be easy but i have things at my disposal that most on this site don't. so the cost of doing things is gonna be much less for me compared to other people.

 

This is what I like to see, other people who like the n/a build idea. I've seen this thread go around about boosting the motor but I just don't really think its necessary to build speed. I think its a combination of power and lightening the car. Plus suspension to make it fun. Ill have to figure out where all I can make changes to get power from the motor without breaking the bank abd also lightening up the whole car to make the power more noticeable in speed without breaking the bank as well.

 

Ask anyone who has ever driven around with me, either in the car or through some curvy roads, and none of them would ever say that it wasnt fun or needed more power, in fact theres probably quite a few forced induction cars that wish i was still stock Suspension/brakes/NA power/driver mod FTW

 

full bolt on's, opening up the exhaust ports on the head a little bit and tuning will make the 2.4's. not sure about the 2.2's on if they will benefit more from a head porting on the exhaust side or the intake side or maybe both.

 

^^ all mods need to be matched to be optimized.

your ports need to be matched to your exhaust - and best power is made with a long tube header setup...
but you can have too free flowing exhaut...
iirc,, ideally you want an intake to exhaust ratio of something like 80%;
that's to say that the exhaust flows 80% of the intake...

I would think that the key which I haven't seen any LE5 guy do is cams;
you've already got decent compression - and it seems that the tune can only take you so far...
but cams area two-sided issue;
you have VVT, and there are zero offerings for your application...
you need to retain the VVT which I believe means you need to retain your stock ECM...

The only solution I see is finding a donor set of cams, and getting webcams to weld up and regrind them for you ~ which is probably about $500usd
Web Cam Inc. - Performance and Racing Camshafts

 

there are actually 2 companies that make cams for the 2.4 that are vvt compatible. zzp and some other company i can't remember the name but they don't have the greatest reputation in the cobalt community.

 

I know ZZP makes cams for the LNF - which might work with the LE5 - I cannot recall if the exhaust cam will swap out or not...
but this is new to me none the less...

They key is you need to set out a game plan per say (which may, or may no include a desired e/t goal);
and stick to that plan without allowing yourself to get side tracked...

my goal with my GA was to pull an uncorrected 14 e/t in Calgary.. with Race City shutting down (and me essentially doing nothing to the car this year) - I'll have to re-assess things.. but I'm pretty much having fun with it;
my Cobalt, on the other hand is pretty much supposed to be first and foremost a daily driver - and with that I will not do anything which might take away from it's reliability or take away from me being able to DD the car...

 

ya see i am deviating away from doing 1/4 mile and concentrating more or road racing (no not street racing) and because the power goals are differen't and really comes down more to suspension setup then power. the power aspect is more for the "lets see what she's got" kinda deal. i'll try and find a link to the zzp cams for the 2.4

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/...Camshafts.aspx

 

I'd wager that those would even have a stock sound at idle...

I'd also think you might want a smidge bigger... then again I haven't messed with VVT crap before.

 

So these motors can only hold about 250 hp before having to build the internals? And.by building the internals I'm taking that to mean just new connecting rods and pistons on the rotating assembly or will the crabk not hold up and need replaced too? Would I also have to.sleeve the block?

I've been looking at cost any way I go and.I may end up just going all out ridiculous even.though I don't need it cause I can save cost by doing a lot of the work myself.

So let's say.I decide to go all out and aim for 300 hp. If it were your build what kind of parts would you go with?

 

the 2.2 should be able to handle 300hp pretty easily AFAIK

 

just blow and rebuild

 

Where did you read that?
(did I miss a post or something?)

GM made a book in which they have a stock L61 block holding 325bhp...

with most engines the first thing to go is the crank end of the rod - it stretches, and you spin the bearing...
I have read that even GM suggests upgrading the piston - wit hthe LSJ's the first think to break is generally the top ringland...

I guess it depends on how high you plan on spinning the engine...

I would suggest that once you hit around 225whp with a naturally aspirated four-banger, you're going to be at the point where you're taking away the streetability, and probably the reliability... so if you're dead set on making that power (which might cost quadruple of going turbo btw) you had better have a second car to use as a daily driver, or at least a back-up for when the car is in the midst of, or needing mechanical attention.

 

Well I'm thinking supercharger and NOS to reach those numbers.

 

you should be able to hit that with either hte M62 - or even easier with the TVS... both bolt-on.

oh well.. this was nice while it lasted

 

Well a blower still isn't for sure. I'd love to do.it without a blower or turbo I just don't really see how I can reliably and still be able to have a dd out of it.

 

People say 250 because of the nitrous test gm did a long time ago. I reminder reading posts from nhjk about how unless your also looking to do that it's not out of the realm that you may be able to push a little farther on boost until you blow. You shouldn't expect to go that far and not have issues. On the other hand if you cruise on ecotecforum enough you can see some people who have issues before 250. Afaik the highest hp rating anyone with an na 2.2 is ~220, not the average bolt on build though.

 

Ok so about the.highest I can go with an na L61 is about 215 hp safely? Is that with or without NOS?

If I stay naturally aspirated and just run NOS for an extra boost sparingly, how many horses can I look at safely pulling?

 

^^did you ever message that guy whom I told you to?

speaking to someone who's done this - and been there is pretty much invaluble... especially when you're going to get half of the scoffing that you might here...

does the ecotec forum still exist?

that was created by the same guy who created the quad4forums ~ I joined it a while back, but noticed that activity was almost zilch.

 

This was the guy I was talking about: Cobalt SS Network - View Profile: o3nisoaso3 . Ef is still around but they weren't bumpin. Njhk runs it now . Alanoo isn't active a lot here anymore but I remember he had good na build going. You will always get scoffing because a cheap sc build makes sense for most people looking for ~200-240, na does not.