2.2L L61 Performance Tech 16 valve 145 hp EcoTec with 155 lb-ft of torque

LSJ head onto my L61 block

Old 09-27-2007, 04:30 AM
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LSJ head onto my L61 block

Im trying to get hold of a sand cast LSJ/Saab head with some porting work for N/A tuning with the 2.4 inlet manifold.

I want some cams and had a look in the parts thread at the top of the forum and saw this
"L61 and LSJ cams can be used in an LSJ head on an L61 block, but that's a pretty advanced modification"

does that mean its a pain to fit L61 cams into the LSJ head/block combo or does that just mean swapping the head and cam/cylinder head cover for the LSJ items.
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Old 09-27-2007, 09:23 AM
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its more trouble than its worth dude. buy a turbo or sc
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Old 09-27-2007, 09:44 AM
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trust me a turbo/SC is FAR FAR FAR mroe trouble than its worth

N/A tuning ONLY no FI it simply will NOT fit.

why is fitting an LSJ head to an L61 bottom end trouble? if its simply getting various bits to fit thats not trouble... getting stuff machined isnt huge trouble... etc
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Old 09-27-2007, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 07cobaltguy View Post
its more trouble than its worth dude. buy a turbo or sc
^^^ i agree. its much simplier to buy a turbo/sc kit than it is to do the head swap IMO.
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Old 09-27-2007, 12:22 PM
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head just bolts up, just need to cap off the cam sensor... I have one for sale if you're interested. and the cams just drop in, that's it. same dimensions and pretty much everything else as the 2.2 head, just beter casting
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Old 09-27-2007, 04:06 PM
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I thought L61 cams did not work in the LSJ head due to the cam sensor being on a different cam than the LSJ cams

also how the hell is going turbo easier than a headswap? lol, tell that to the guys with blown motors trying to tune the 2.2 for boost.
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Old 09-27-2007, 04:32 PM
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cams are the same just about. Only difference is the LSJ exhaust cams have a keyway for the cam sensor, since the L61 does not use that sensor, just block off that part of the head, and it's the same thing.

you can't use L61 cams in an LSJ but you can use LSJ cams in an L61 I'm pretty sure.

Last edited by 06blackg85ss; 09-27-2007 at 04:32 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 09-27-2007, 04:36 PM
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I've been told that the lsj head doesn't bolt up to the l61 block. I haven't been told any reasons why though.

What I want to know is why do you want to use an lsj head? Are the ports bigger? Do they use bigger valves? I know the blocks are the same except for the rotating assymblies but I don't know that much about the heads.

what we need is for someone like halfcent to step in here and show/tell us the specific differences.
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:38 PM
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you have been told wrong. any of the ecotec heads will bolt up to anyblock bottom line. as of Right now I have a LSJ Head bolted to A LE5 shortblock. remember all the ecotec engines are based off the 2.2L L61 ECOTEC

as 06blackg85ss (paul was saying that the LSJ has a cam sensor on the head. the LSJ dont. this is why the L61 cams wont work witht he LSJ head. they will physically fit into the cylinder head though. you could block it off like paul is saying but I dont know of anyone who has done it or if its a pain in the ass to get running. heres some pics of my LSJ 2.0L head going on to MY LE5 2.4L short block I'm watch my friends do all my work for me no seriously im just letting them get thier hands wet too they deserve it.






heres my best buds out here in cali
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MVP View Post
you have been told wrong. any of the ecotec heads will bolt up to anyblock bottom line. as of Right now I have a LSJ Head bolted to A LE5 shortblock. remember all the ecotec engines are based off the 2.2L L61 ECOTEC

as 06blackg85ss (paul was saying that the LSJ has a cam sensor on the head. the LSJ dont. this is why the L61 cams wont work witht he LSJ head. they will physically fit into the cylinder head though. you could block it off like paul is saying but I dont know of anyone who has done it or if its a pain in the ass to get running.
well that's good to know. I was thinking about swapping the lsj shortblock in once I got the s/c up and running and was told the head wouldn't bolt up. If it will then I just have to figure out a way to get the getrag f23 bolted up to the lsj crank(don't like the lsj's gearing).
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Novajoe View Post
well that's good to know. I was thinking about swapping the lsj shortblock in once I got the s/c up and running and was told the head wouldn't bolt up. If it will then I just have to figure out a way to get the getrag f23 bolted up to the lsj crank(don't like the lsj's gearing).
Heres where im stuck as well.... the trans will bolt to the block but I have to have a custom flywheel made to work. except im using a REDLINE/SS S/C transmission the LSJ has a 8 bolt pattern and the L61 and the LE5 have a 6 bolt crank pattern. I dopnt want to swich transmissions to a F23 because it is inferior to the Redline transmission. F35 is the name for it i think
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MVP View Post
Heres where im stuck as well.... the trans will bolt to the block but I have to have a custom flywheel made to work. except im using a REDLINE/SS S/C transmission the LSJ has a 8 bolt pattern and the L61 and the LE5 have a 6 bolt crank pattern. I dopnt want to swich transmissions to a F23 because it is inferior to the Redline transmission. F35 is the name for it i think
really there's not much difference in the trannies. Except the gearing, and I hate the super short 1st gear the f35 offers then followed by the super long gears with the others... I'd rather use the f23 and get an upgraded clutch and lsd for it. What I'm wondering is if I just used the stock f35 flywheel and clutch setup, would the f23 input shaft line up?

This is all assuming no tuning becomes available for the 4t45e. I'd love to have the chance to mess with an auto set-up, but it's not looking good.
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by IonNinja View Post
I thought L61 cams did not work in the LSJ head due to the cam sensor being on a different cam than the LSJ cams

also how the hell is going turbo easier than a headswap? lol, tell that to the guys with blown motors trying to tune the 2.2 for boost.
if i had a choice i would do a turbo cause it seems much simplier to do. i think i could install a turbo kit in a weekend where as if i was swaping to a different kind of head i would be takin a chance on things not going back together. now if it was just replacing a warped or cracked head with the same one that would be different. but as far as a diff. one i wouldnt chance it just cause i only have my one car and dont want to chance having it on jackstands for too long.
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 409Cobalt07 View Post
if i had a choice i would do a turbo cause it seems much simplier to do. i think i could install a turbo kit in a weekend where as if i was swaping to a different kind of head i would be takin a chance on things not going back together. now if it was just replacing a warped or cracked head with the same one that would be different. but as far as a diff. one i wouldnt chance it just cause i only have my one car and dont want to chance having it on jackstands for too long.
agreed... especially since there is a kit. head swaps are not exactly easy to do at all whereas a turbo doesn't really require any internal work. if you wanted to run a lot of boost, then you might be tearing it apart.
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:42 PM
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turbo was definitely easier than doing a head swap.... trust me lol
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:05 PM
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I'm not talking about physically installing it, any retard can do that...

I'm talking about an installed and running correctly turbo setup...if you don't think it'll take you longer to set that up than a head swap which can take 1-3 days you're crazy. Either that or you are the supreme tuner that the 2.2 world has been looking for...
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Novajoe View Post
really there's not much difference in the trannies. Except the gearing, and I hate the super short 1st gear the f35 offers then followed by the super long gears with the others... I'd rather use the f23 and get an upgraded clutch and lsd for it. What I'm wondering is if I just used the stock f35 flywheel and clutch setup, would the f23 input shaft line up?

This is all assuming no tuning becomes available for the 4t45e. I'd love to have the chance to mess with an auto set-up, but it's not looking good.

I can tell you this, F23 input shaft is piloted (well I'm almost certain) and the F35 is not. (that im certain about)

Originally Posted by IonNinja View Post
I'm not talking about physically installing it, any retard can do that...

I'm talking about an installed and running correctly turbo setup...if you don't think it'll take you longer to set that up than a head swap which can take 1-3 days you're crazy. Either that or you are the supreme tuner that the 2.2 world has been looking for...

1-3 days for a head swap thats slow

Last edited by MVP; 09-27-2007 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:21 PM
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Any reason why you would want to do this? I can see the 2.4L since it has VVT, but why the LSJ?
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:41 PM
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designed and built the turbo setup with Kenny from C/A in basically 2 days. If we had the right parts it would have been tuned and completely ready to go at thge end of the day. and I have a 2.0 not a 2.2 though
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MVP View Post
Heres where im stuck as well.... the trans will bolt to the block but I have to have a custom flywheel made to work. except im using a REDLINE/SS S/C transmission the LSJ has a 8 bolt pattern and the L61 and the LE5 have a 6 bolt crank pattern. I dopnt want to swich transmissions to a F23 because it is inferior to the Redline transmission. F35 is the name for it i think
Have you dynoed your car yet. Id like to see what kind of numbers you are runnign with yor setup.
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Old 09-28-2007, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by JRelly View Post
Have you dynoed your car yet. Id like to see what kind of numbers you are runnign with yor setup.
Nope I jsut got back from a deployment. I havent even put the motor in the car yet. it will be soon though i promiss.

Originally Posted by smartmlp View Post
Any reason why you would want to do this? I can see the 2.4L since it has VVT, but why the LSJ?
well for starters the LSJ head flows better then the LE5 and I didnt want to mess with trying to make the VVT work with my RL. VVT would kick ass though.

Last edited by MVP; 09-28-2007 at 12:21 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 09-28-2007, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MVP View Post
1-3 days for a head swap thats slow
well when you drop your timing chain tensioner and it disappears into space that causes some delay ok i'll admit changing the head on the 2.2 was a pain in the ass and I never wanna do it again
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Old 09-28-2007, 02:05 AM
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Right i want the LSJ head as its a) sand cast so stronger and not suceptable to over zealous spark plug tightening cracks in cylinders 1 and 4 b)its sand cast and is not made like an aero bar (not sure if you guys ahve a simlar chocolate bar that is full of bubbles of air lol)

Belive me, the 2.2 i have isnt in a cobalt and therefore a turbo option is totally non existent, and the S/C is a little more trouble tooa s I would have to go standalone as no tuner can really sort the ecu for cheap here (a rough guide is that "tuners" charge $10K for an S/C conversion to get to 230bhp...... hmm yeah ok lol)
engine is behind the driver


So I'd need LSJ cams in the LSJ head then? or can the L61 cams go in and it run fine but have to block off a seperate sensor hole..?

sweet looking build MVP

Last edited by slindborg; 09-28-2007 at 02:05 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 09-28-2007, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by slindborg View Post
Right i want the LSJ head as its a) sand cast so stronger and not suceptable to over zealous spark plug tightening cracks in cylinders 1 and 4 b)its sand cast and is not made like an aero bar (not sure if you guys ahve a simlar chocolate bar that is full of bubbles of air lol)

Belive me, the 2.2 i have isnt in a cobalt and therefore a turbo option is totally non existent, and the S/C is a little more trouble tooa s I would have to go standalone as no tuner can really sort the ecu for cheap here (a rough guide is that "tuners" charge $10K for an S/C conversion to get to 230bhp...... hmm yeah ok lol)
engine is behind the driver


So I'd need LSJ cams in the LSJ head then? or can the L61 cams go in and it run fine but have to block off a seperate sensor hole..?

sweet looking build MVP
Is that your car?
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Old 09-28-2007, 04:57 AM
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yesh
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