Dragracer5143

So I picked up a 2006 Cobalt not to long ago that didn't have a motor. I also picked up a 2002 Olds Alero with a L61 2.2 engine that was blown up. I want to build a 2.2 for the Cobalt so I was looking at the aftermarket blocks through zzperformance. My question is will the gen 1, 2, or 3 block work for me to be able to take the exterior pieces like cylinder head, front cover, valve cover, water pump, etc off the L61 I have and put on the aftermarket block? If so which one do you recommend? Thanks!

jdbaugh1

iTrader: (1)

I went through this with ZZP for my supercharged 2.2 and here is a copypasta of what they told me.


"I will not have anything assembled available. Only a bare block like our ZZP Girdled block which would be overkill. While I do not have a pre-assembled product for you here is some info that will probably make your search easier and give you some options. And if you need any parts, hopefully you'll order from us.


2.0, 2.2, and 2.4 have swappable parts.

2.0 and 2.2 are the same block (86mm bore) but the 2.0 has piston squirters. You can add them to other blocks but the cost doesn’t make it worth it normally when building the blocks. Better to just start with a 2.0 block.

Being that the parts are interchangeable it doesn’t make sense when building a 2.2, to stay at 2.2 liters. You’re better off with a 2.4 block (88mm bore) or using 2.0 parts.
Assuming you have the right year parts, you can bolt any head on any block w/o any issue. The flywheels and cranks and balancers, everything interchanges. The 2.2 and 2.4 cranks are cast with 6 flywheel bolts. They use the same flywheel and we make a 9.5” flywheel with 6 bolts so that you can use those cranks with the larger 2.0 clutches.
Otherwise for strength in boosted applications, you want a 2.0 crank as it is the only forged crank.
You can use a 2.4 block with 2.4 pistons and 2.0 crank to achieve 2.1 liters. Then you have the strength with more displacement. Each route has some pros and cons depending what you’re doing.

Most 2.2 guys on a budget, I recommend swapping to a stock gen 3 2.4 bottom end, this only works on 08+ 2.2 because on 2007 and older, the reluctor wheel is cast into the crankshaft. All the other parts you already own will bolt right on it and the motors are available cheap. The 2.4 parts are stronger than stock 2.2 parts as well so you can run 10psi safely on stock parts but only 5psi on 2.2 bottoms. Going past that, you can run forged rods/pistons in either 2.0 or 2.4 and still be better off than trying to run forged 2.2 parts.

If you have a 2008 or newer 2.2, the gen 3 2.4 bottom is a direct bolt in and your existing clutch will also bolt right up. If you want to go to a 2.0 crank, you have to change the clutch/flywheel which may need to be done if you are boosting anyway.

If you have any other questions, please let me know."

Dragracer5143

Were you dealing with a Gen 1 2.2 or a Gen 2 2.2? When I talked to zzperformance all they said was they didn't think they had a block that would work for the older 2.2
Thanks

jdbaugh1

iTrader: (1)

My car is a 2006 so I would think Gen 1.

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

all the blocks are the same as far as bolting parts up. any crank will fit any block. timing covers, heads, etc all fit every block. if your building an engine you want to either use a gen 1 or gen 3 block, the gen 2 block has less material in some areas and is known for cracking. a girdled gen 3 block would be the strongest. use 86mm bore to build a 2.0l or 2.2l, 88mm bore block to build a 2.1l or 2.4l.

overall, what are you trying to build? how much power are you planning to make?

Dragracer5143

I'm not sure yet I haven't completely decided. Someday I would like to see somewhere around 900 to 1000 hp out of it but I don't know if I'm going to be able to have the finances for that yet ha

Jbishop0352

Man not to steal your thunder but 1000hrspwr in a cobalt? Are you planning on driving it on the street at all. To make 900 or 1000 horsepower on these motors it would be damn awesome but also be somewhere around $20,000 upwards of 50k once you build the car and chassis/tranny system to drive it. Your better off buying thier crate motor and go from their with say around 400-550 horsepower which would be doable and driveable for around $4,000-10,000 . The Gen 3 has better materials and you would need for the build your talking about and they are better built. These cars can easily put out 330-350 and built right before changing everything else like suspension. The some nos would give you another 125-150 thats reasonable and cheaper. Honestly for the power to weight ratio thats pretty damn good and fast as hell for a daily driver lol.

You could save money and build a mean ass Ls1 with a Whipple supercharger which is still 15k, the charger for that kind of power is almost 4-6k.

There are a few that are in the power range your talking about but they are true drag cars and not streetable. If you got it like that bro I'd say build it lol. That's the problem with us gearheads we can't stop changing, breaking stuff or making them faster.

Dragracer5143

Ya I know it will take some money but it would be damn cool ha. I'm not to concerned with getting the power out of the motor but I am concerned with keeping the transmission and cv shafts together. I've already played around with nitrous in my Cavalier so now I plan on having some fun with a turbo in the Cobalt

Jbishop0352

Yea honestly the stage 2 or stage 3 kit is cheap and fun for sure!! For $450-550 you get close to 300hrpwr. In these cars at the 300 mark it's best to start changing out suspension. In my expierence it's great to build the power plant but suspension is almost if not more expensive but we'll worth the reward. With a good set up you can drive the hell out of them without blowing axles left and right and it will stick when you let the clutch go

But badass all day dude so if you got it spend it and spank someone's ass lol. I'm in the same boat, hell mine is in the drive way and not running now lol. Waiting in the pcm to come back from zzp. But then it's on to another piece of the car which will be swaybar, links and new struts/shocks etc so another $500 in her lol.. it def doesn't take much in these though.

I'm waiting to see what this stage 2 really does. I think for mine I'm gonna go ahead and swap to a turbo next year once the motor is built internally.

Dragracer5143

Before I really start going at the motor I want to get the car capable of handling whatever I want to throw at it. I want to put a cage in it, switch to aftermarket coilovers, and swap it over to a 5 bolt wheel pattern to start with. I haven't messed with a supercharger on them before so maybe when I'm tired of the turbo I will start playing with that on the next project ha

cluelessk

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

well, if you want to see what it takes to build a 1000hp fwd car, have a look at the gm sport compact build book.

Dragracer5143

Already have that book, I just wish some more of those parts were still available ha

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

a lot of whats in there is technology from the ecotec in its infancy. there is plenty of stuff out there to make a 1000hp ecotec, however its not done often because its not practical.

Dragracer5143

Anyone can build a sbc to 1000 hp so I like the challenge of trying to get a 4 cylinder to a 1000 hp ha

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

its a good challenge for sure, and it is doable. thing is id be putting it into a rwd platform for that sort of power so you can make better use of it.

Dragracer5143

That has been a thought I had because I am a little concerned with the transmission and cv shafts life expectancy in the cobalt

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

the only was your going to make a transmission stand up to 1000hp aside from a dyno queen is with the 4t65e race transmission as shown in the build book. along with the 300m porsche 930 style cv joints and 300m axle shafts.

anything more than 500whp is useless in a fwd unless you build an all out drag car your going to tow to the track. thats why i put an ecotec in a 944. i wanted to make 600+ with an ecotec in a streetable car, only way to have fun doing that is with rwd.

Jbishop0352

Well I'd be interested in seeing what the cost is to put out say 450 on motor. Jam a bigger turbo and NOS at them just causes more breaks. I've seen several that have 330-350 and then NOS but the suspension was descent too.

If you got the time and the money dude then you can definitely build it. I have a nice Camaro and a mustang I built my wife and it took about 6 years to build each at well over 10k and honestly probably another 3k in the suspension maybr a tad more. Those are stroker motors though and carbs and the stang is a recent fuel injection swap which has been way better.

So the 07 cobalt I got Im working on now but it will be a 3 year project I'm sure and interested to know the cost. I already know turbo is my next step lol since that's a easier power option but got a shot suspension that's first though and then back to the motor..

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

450 is doable with a set of rods and pistons and the right size turbo. problem is at 450hp your playing with fire, thats right around the point known to break cylinder walls. if you wanted to drop it back to 425 it would be safer. rods, pistons and turbo swap, no nitrous needed.

now if you really want 450-500hp reliably your going to need a girdled or sleeved block, along with rods and pistons, balance shaft delete (or neutral balanced shafts), stiffer valve springs, some aftermarket cams will help a lot as well, along with some head porting. im sure im forgetting stuff.

Dragracer5143

To start with I'm probably just going to put the stock block in with some better rods, pistons, port the heads, camshafts and throw a small turbo on just for some fun. I want to slowly start putting a bigger engine together with an aftermarket block but where I put that engine I'm not sure yet

Jbishop0352

Sharkey man I'm use to the 8bangers lol which you can tell from the help with this damn pcm issue I had lol. These smaller ones are a learning curve but def glad you guys know your sh*t. I don't think I'd go as high as that since I like them tight where they can be beat up and no breaks. I think safely I'd rather build it around the 315-330 mark with a bigger turbo and the forged internals, cam etc. Be able to handle more psi if you wanted to run 20+ psi. I've seen a guy about 2 hrs from me at the track who is around 23psi and fast as hell. He won't post his time but his car is a 10 second car all day long. He's funny about talking about it but smart since he gambles with it too and kills the Camaro and corvettes all day long. I can hear he has a big turbo but I'm still learning what too big is.

Zzp motor is a nice one and from what everyone is saying they can be pushed pretty damn hard. I don't race as much as I use to and really want the power in case you get that one next to you and just want to say yes it's a 4 cylinder dude and you could keep up. My v8 cars are fun but man it takes work when you can tune the 4cy at a lower cost an get them to stick much easier and I guess more streetable I mean. But you know the more you make the more you need that suspension set up.

Dragracer5143

And V8 guys get pissed when a 4 cylinder beats them haha

Jbishop0352

Dragracer I'm sure you know-it sucks dude or I know at least !!! Lol I have this 4cy mustang in this area that for the longest has beaten my camaro and by a couple cars. II've gotten close or within a car but that turbo just pulls man. I've done the track with it and had fun and it's a mid to low 11 sec car but this guy and his small 4 banger blew my doors off with it a few times. He is cool and has a ton if work done to run a crap load of boost but man still sucks when for the longest you thought bigger was better ha ha.. he doesn't have an exhaust and doesn't have a blow off valve just a normal looking 4cy. Got me for a couple hundred one day since I knew what mine would run and we have been friends since lol. He has a great mechanic just gotta drive a few hours for the work.

Dragracer5143

Ya ha my dad and I own a performance shop so we get tired of building V8s so we build 4 cylinders for ourselves. Right now I got a 96 cavalier with a 2.4 that I built up and threw a 150 shot of nitrous at. I have definitely snuck up on a few guys