Ok so we went from air to fuel? Which one are you argueing about?

I really don't see what your trying to say here... Plus I don't know if you saw but it's adjustable... You can make it only run 91-93 rating.

 

I'm suprised CSM Huber hasn't chimed in yet.

 

how much is ambient temp methanol going to cool ambient air?
likely very little.
it will cool combustion temps, and allow more timing, but so would running the proper octane in the first place.

Methanol benefits F/I cars far more, because the air is heated before it gets to the engine.

 

wow, this thread took off after I left for a day! see these arguments are what's been going through my head. first off, it WOULD be cheaper to use methanol to make up the difference in octane from 87 to say 91 or 94, although it would be just as cheap to make it even higher. the car IS already tuned, and getting adjustments made wouldn't be an issue. I REALLY like the idea of having much more timing without having to pay as much as using 94 octane (which is EXPENSIVE in my area) plus, if I ever decide to go forced induction, to kudos to that as well. Now as far as the spark issues, what info can we get on this? this might make or break the whole deal, but we need more info. keep it coming!

 

Basically what I am saying is there isn't enough of everything else to add a whole ASSLOAD of fuel.

I know you can control it and end up using less to a point...but I overall think meth is best used as a chemical intercooler for super hopped up N/A drag cars and F/I

I really don't think that there isn't anything more to be gained...and to make more power with a N/A app you need to get more air, and rev higher...so like if you built a motor to take a 10k redline and didn't wanna have a rad the size of Texas in front of your car, then meth would be needed.

Not on a sub 200whp build.

 

but wouldn't the meth be a step in the right direction towards that n/a build or f/i build? it would give you increasing gains as you went further along that path, and act as a supporting mod for those things, correct? In the end it would give you (albeit minimal) some gains now, but much more down the road, right?

 

Actually if you are running a 50/50 mix of methonol and water, the cooling beinefits are pretty large. The alcohol evaporates and cools the charge and the water when it boils in the cylinders takes even more heat out. Plus it cleans the engine.

Meth/water injection is not a bad thing at all, I just don't know that it is worth while on a mostly stock N/A engine.

I don't claim to be an expert on the subject though. I am still reasearching it myself, so I would be glad to see some more educated responses.

 

well AIS quoted me around $500 bucks for a NA setup, which would be a steep price to pay. ( I detailed my situation to them and they said it's definately possible, but pointed out that like you said on a mostly stock motor you wont see a huge benefit (although as I said, over time it will help the more you mod the car) 500 bucks is a lot tho. I'm trying to get an idea of what kind of benefits I could expect from them, hopefully they'll be able to give us some more concrete answers.

 

I am working with my tuning guy to come up with a way to turn on the meth/water via the stock ECM. If that works out then not only can the car be tuned to use it, but you would not need to buy the high end kit. All you would need is the basic, pump, tank and fluid lines.

Its still in the works, but it should work. It still wont be cheap because of the cost for the ECM tune, but it will work so much smoother that way.

 

Oh noes.........you are not trying to spray alchy because you are too much of a cheap ass to pay for premium. That 2.4 motor can't justify the use of anything more than premium because it can't handle more timing advance than premium supports anyhow. You are wasting your time thinking of all this Mcguyver Bullshit.

 

for the last time. read this, and remember this.

YOU DO NOT NEED WATER INJECTION ON A STOCK N/A ENGINE.

you do not have the compression to justify using it. if anything, it's a waste of money. no matter what a vendor on here says. this is the truth.

 

HAHA! McGuyver!

Like I was saying before, maybe on the hotest days of summer would it actually really help on the stock motor.

 

no. it won't

 

why not? 100+ degrees with low RH%, the water meth will help make a denser cooler better running charge that is much less prone to knock? Or am I just out to lunch here?

 

The 2.4L motor just doesn't knock on 91 octane. Unless you advance timing more than 3-4* above stock. Then it will knock regardless of octane.

 

[QUOTE=Psykostevo;2073272]The 2.4L motor just doesn't knock on 91 octane. Unless you advance timing more than 3-4* above stock. Then it will knock regardless of octane.

I'm not talking about knock retard. I'm talking about getting more power on hot days because of the evaporative cooling effects = denser charge, that the injection kit would give. It would give you back the power of a 50* day even though it is 100*.

 

you're thinking way too deep into this.

 

I wouldn't do it on a N/A motor, I'm just trying to see if there is any benifit at all!

I do want it now that I have F/I though!

 

I agree. Meth is for boosted cars with an inneficient intercooler setup (like overboosting), and for cars with non-streetable compression ratios (i.e. 13:1 +)

 

just use 93 octane, and save some time.

 

I think he is just wanting to have another MOD on his car. He's run out of ideas and thinks installing a Hyperdrive would be sweet for when his mexican friend Chewbacca drives shotgun with him.

 

fixed

 

I don't find it that funny. I was trying to get REAL answers here for everyones benefit.

I am modding my car to make it fast and reliable. If meth/water injection can protect my engine and allow for more power output then that is what I would like to do.

 

if you have paid attention for the 7538956134896543 time.

the answer is there. you chose to avoid the obvious answer.

if your motor is box stock with no added power. IE forced induction via blower or turbo. it will not do anything for you.

if you have a turbo, or blower. you will benefit from it. IF you compensate for it via hp tuners.

 

^^^ bold is contradicting.

Second, I read that the first 7538956134896543 times. I was trying to determine if there was any gains from an N/A engine. I think there still would be, but not worth the money/time at all.

I HAVE a turbocharged 2.4L and thats why I am considering doing this!!!

mmkay