Need some help with questions on an engine build
06-08-2017, 03:55 AM
#1
New Member
Thread Starter
Need some help with questions on an engine build
A while back I bought an old GMPP sleeved block and a set of matching 88.9mm pistons. I jumped on it because they don't sell this block anymore, it's what they used in their factory drag cars and is capable of running 1400+ hp. I have all the documentation, including the build sheet stating that the block is based on an LE5, but the pistons require 5.765" rods. I got to looking around and the L61 rods are this length but have a 20mm wrist pin, where I require a 22mm. I have had a lot of frustration trying to track down the right parts, until I found a thread about LSJ cranks in an LE5 block, making the displacement 2.1l. Now my issue is that the LSJ rod is about 1 mm short, but with the 23mm wrist pin, I found a racing shop in Indianapolis that can bore out my piston to fit the bigger wrist pin and make up the difference with the shorter rod. My question is, is all of this **** going to work. The LSJ crank has a much shorter stroke than my LE5 crank. I was looking for a simple engine assembly plan and I seem to be going way too custom, I don't want Steve Schmidt Racing to end up doing the entire build for me. Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.
06-08-2017, 10:12 AM
#2
Member
I found a thread about LSJ cranks in an LE5 block, making the displacement 2.1l. Now my issue is that the LSJ rod is about 1 mm short, but with the 23mm wrist pin, I found a racing shop in Indianapolis that can bore out my piston to fit the bigger wrist pin and make up the difference with the shorter rod. My question is, is all of this **** going to work. The LSJ crank has a much shorter stroke than my LE5 crank. I was looking for a simple engine assembly plan and I seem to be going way too custom, I don't want Steve Schmidt Racing to end up doing the entire build for me. Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.
<~ im just a noob but if im not mistaken, the 2.1's are great for making 500+ HP builds. Someone on here is definitely got the expertise to provide some insight for you, but what youre doing is nothing new... that im sure. other than your block being a rarity. Anywho, thats my 2cents for what its worth.
Sounds like thatll be a pretty sick build though.
06-08-2017, 11:43 PM
#3
New Member
Thread Starter
But the measurements is what is screwing with my head. LSJ rods are less than 2 mm shorter but the stroke on an LSJ crank is 12 mm shorter. I need a 5.765" rod but can't find one with the wrist pin size I need. LSJ rods are only 1 mm shorter, but then do I still use the LSJ crank, or the L61 crank. I think I'm just going to have to take it in to the shop and have them measure it for me and tell me what size rods I need. Trying to figure out what this guy was trying to do gives me anxiety. Plus, what ecotec rods are 5.765" with a 22mm wrist pin?
06-09-2017, 02:21 AM
#4
the thing with the ecotec race engines is they are like every other race engine, they dont use off the shelf parts. this engine would likely have been using an aftermarket crank, possibly a different stroke than any production ecotec. basicly what your going to have to do is pick whatever crank you want to run, run the matching length rods and get a custom piston made.
06-09-2017, 02:48 AM
#5
dug out my sport comp build book and had a look. the 3.5" bore block was used for the 1000+hp engines (600-1000hp engines used a 3.4" bore. these engines both used a crank from gm performance (may have been made by eagle) with a 3.505" stroke. rods were 5.888" long from manley, and pistons were custom from je pistons. now there is some conflicting info here because they show a 22mm wrist pin used in the 600-1000hp version, and 21mm in the 1000+, however they list the same rods for both engines. i would assume at that level of power in a full drag race engine that they would have used an aluminum rod but there is no mention of that.
so what you do is really up to you, but anything is going to take a custom set of pistons. that really isnt the end of the world, depending on what you want to build. if you want to use a 2.0l crank, use 2.0l size rods and have whoever makes lsj pistons and and tell them you want that in your bore size. same idea if you want to use a 2.2l or 2.4l crank.
what are your plans for this engine? keep in mind that sleeved blocks wernt really designed for street use as they have reduced cooling capacity because of the diameter of the sleeves. they were designed to run for only a few minutes at a time, and mostly on alcohol. many people tried sleeved blocks on the street years back and people have since moved away from them. there are now stronger "drop in" sleeves and girdled blocks that do everything you would want in a street driven ecotec.
so what you do is really up to you, but anything is going to take a custom set of pistons. that really isnt the end of the world, depending on what you want to build. if you want to use a 2.0l crank, use 2.0l size rods and have whoever makes lsj pistons and and tell them you want that in your bore size. same idea if you want to use a 2.2l or 2.4l crank.
what are your plans for this engine? keep in mind that sleeved blocks wernt really designed for street use as they have reduced cooling capacity because of the diameter of the sleeves. they were designed to run for only a few minutes at a time, and mostly on alcohol. many people tried sleeved blocks on the street years back and people have since moved away from them. there are now stronger "drop in" sleeves and girdled blocks that do everything you would want in a street driven ecotec.
06-09-2017, 05:36 AM
#6
New Member
Thread Starter
When I bought it, my plan was full drag car, possibly a solstice with a cage and t56 conversion. But once I started looking for parts to finish it I kind of thought it was more than I wanted to invest. I found the GM crank on jegs for $4000 and talked to manley, who offered me a great deal on 5.888" 22mm rods. Then I'm looking at another two grand to port, polish, and bore the lsj head and build it out with cams, valves and springs. I know horsepower isn't cheap. But if that is where I need to go with this engine, it will just take longer than I wanted. I actually have it up for sale in a couple Facebook groups, everything I have for $2200 shipped but it's just a bunch of tire kickers. Not sure what I want to do now. I really don't want to let it sit for 10 years like the guy I bought it from.
06-09-2017, 09:08 AM
#7
When I bought it, my plan was full drag car, possibly a solstice with a cage and t56 conversion. But once I started looking for parts to finish it I kind of thought it was more than I wanted to invest. I found the GM crank on jegs for $4000 and talked to manley, who offered me a great deal on 5.888" 22mm rods. Then I'm looking at another two grand to port, polish, and bore the lsj head and build it out with cams, valves and springs. I know horsepower isn't cheap. But if that is where I need to go with this engine, it will just take longer than I wanted. I actually have it up for sale in a couple Facebook groups, everything I have for $2200 shipped but it's just a bunch of tire kickers. Not sure what I want to do now. I really don't want to let it sit for 10 years like the guy I bought it from.
06-09-2017, 09:59 AM
#8
New Member
Thread Starter
$4000 for a crank that hasn't been sold since 09. I have found them cheaper from individual sellers but they don't respond. I have had a serious falling out with zzp. We're no longer on speaking terms.
06-09-2017, 10:10 AM
#12
New Member
Thread Starter
Yeah. The kit was missing parts and the instructions had some holes. The Coolant return for the Turbo caused an airlock that I spent almost $1000 trying to fix, all I had to do was reroute it. Then the gauges I bought were bad according to aem, but zzp told me to send them in to their shop for testing and I never got them back. So I filed a claim with my credit card company and then they tried to tell me that I never sent them in but that I bent the pins, making them not work. Just terrible customer service and giving me bad information for several months.
06-09-2017, 10:27 AM
#14
New Member
Thread Starter
Yeah, I'm still working through some issues with the fuel trims but I've burned the stock clutch out already. Running peak 12 psi, when it hits in 4th or 5th it kills my clutch. Putting a new KY in soon. After I talked to a few guys with the same kit and the same issues, it worked great. I just wish zzp could admit when they're wrong. It would've saved me about a month of headaches.
06-09-2017, 10:35 AM
#15
Member
Yeah, I'm still working through some issues with the fuel trims but I've burned the stock clutch out already. Running peak 12 psi, when it hits in 4th or 5th it kills my clutch. Putting a new KY in soon. After I talked to a few guys with the same kit and the same issues, it worked great. I just wish zzp could admit when they're wrong. It would've saved me about a month of headaches.
Man, if what Sharkey is telling you is correct (which one is inclined to believe its correct information) invest your money in to either further customizing what you have already or as jdbaugh said, you could buy a girdled block from ZZP (i know man, i am not on the best of terms with them either) and just make a sick street car. OR!!! Switch to an entirely different platform altogether. I have had it up to my flippin head with the issues on my car. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And to further add, whether or not some of the issues were my fault (which is highly likely due to learning curve; but im not taking all the flippin blame NO WAY!!! ) i seriously just keep running in to more and more issues with this damn thing. Not to mention its got the shittiest electronics in it. Im just fed up man. And youre either cornered in to going full custom or sticking with ZZP. your choice. If i had all the money to just throw at it to make it the dream car id want it to be (which would require a ton of work and devoted time) then maybe id be singing a different song. But this **** is gettin old with this damn cobalt. How many times does something have to go wrong before i stick a brick on the accelerator and let it fly off a cliff at full speed. Knowing my luck something would mess up with it before it made it to the cliff. man, nothing but headaches. anyways, just had to vent that.
Just stick with what you got and sup (soup) it up the way you want it.
Last edited by Cobalt_noob; 06-09-2017 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Additionally
06-09-2017, 11:11 AM
#16
I definitely hear you man, anytime you call them out on their **** they deny deny deny. Best of luck to you brother, dont get too far down in the rabbit hole and find you have no way back out (like my ass). Just another 2 cents worth. Good luck!
Man, if what Sharkey is telling you is correct (which one is inclined to believe its correct information) invest your money in to either further customizing what you have already or as jdbaugh said, you could buy a girdled block from ZZP (i know man, i am not on the best of terms with them either) and just make a sick street car. OR!!! Switch to an entirely different platform altogether. I have had it up to my flippin head with the issues on my car. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And to further add, whether or not some of the issues were my fault (which is highly likely due to learning curve; but im not taking all the flippin blame NO WAY!!! ) i seriously just keep running in to more and more issues with this damn thing. Not to mention its got the shittiest electronics in it. Im just fed up man. And youre either cornered in to going full custom or sticking with ZZP. your choice. If i had all the money to just throw at it to make it the dream car id want it to be (which would require a ton of work and devoted time) then maybe id be singing a different song. But this **** is gettin old with this damn cobalt. How many times does something have to go wrong before i stick a brick on the accelerator and let it fly off a cliff at full speed. Knowing my luck something would mess up with it before it made it to the cliff. man, nothing but headaches. anyways, just had to vent that.
Just stick with what you got and sup (soup) it up the way you want it.
Man, if what Sharkey is telling you is correct (which one is inclined to believe its correct information) invest your money in to either further customizing what you have already or as jdbaugh said, you could buy a girdled block from ZZP (i know man, i am not on the best of terms with them either) and just make a sick street car. OR!!! Switch to an entirely different platform altogether. I have had it up to my flippin head with the issues on my car. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And to further add, whether or not some of the issues were my fault (which is highly likely due to learning curve; but im not taking all the flippin blame NO WAY!!! ) i seriously just keep running in to more and more issues with this damn thing. Not to mention its got the shittiest electronics in it. Im just fed up man. And youre either cornered in to going full custom or sticking with ZZP. your choice. If i had all the money to just throw at it to make it the dream car id want it to be (which would require a ton of work and devoted time) then maybe id be singing a different song. But this **** is gettin old with this damn cobalt. How many times does something have to go wrong before i stick a brick on the accelerator and let it fly off a cliff at full speed. Knowing my luck something would mess up with it before it made it to the cliff. man, nothing but headaches. anyways, just had to vent that.
Just stick with what you got and sup (soup) it up the way you want it.
what problems do you have?
06-09-2017, 11:46 AM
#17
Member
Electrical issues, mysterious fuggin misfires, get one thing fixed something else goes wrong, can't trust anybody to fix the damn thing without ripping me off first, and lastly man I'm just done. Yesterday I did a compression check which my rings are only slightly worn, which is good, but I'm trying to find out why I'm getting misfires and why it keeps cutting out when I accelerate (it spudders, cuts out and bucks a little until I ease off and then get between 20 and 50 misfires) I just had the head rebuilt the guy swears he bench tested it and it was good. I'm thinking its the head gasket which is brand funking new. And just chasing down parts. This whole industry is such a headache but this car has taken the cake man. Check out my threads and you'll see. I've left out a lot of details because nobody's got time for that.
06-09-2017, 06:02 PM
#18
New Member
Thread Starter
dug out my sport comp build book and had a look. the 3.5" bore block was used for the 1000+hp engines (600-1000hp engines used a 3.4" bore. these engines both used a crank from gm performance (may have been made by eagle) with a 3.505" stroke. rods were 5.888" long from manley, and pistons were custom from je pistons. now there is some conflicting info here because they show a 22mm wrist pin used in the 600-1000hp version, and 21mm in the 1000+, however they list the same rods for both engines. i would assume at that level of power in a full drag race engine that they would have used an aluminum rod but there is no mention of that.
so what you do is really up to you, but anything is going to take a custom set of pistons. that really isnt the end of the world, depending on what you want to build. if you want to use a 2.0l crank, use 2.0l size rods and have whoever makes lsj pistons and and tell them you want that in your bore size. same idea if you want to use a 2.2l or 2.4l crank.
what are your plans for this engine? keep in mind that sleeved blocks wernt really designed for street use as they have reduced cooling capacity because of the diameter of the sleeves. they were designed to run for only a few minutes at a time, and mostly on alcohol. many people tried sleeved blocks on the street years back and people have since moved away from them. there are now stronger "drop in" sleeves and girdled blocks that do everything you would want in a street driven ecotec.
so what you do is really up to you, but anything is going to take a custom set of pistons. that really isnt the end of the world, depending on what you want to build. if you want to use a 2.0l crank, use 2.0l size rods and have whoever makes lsj pistons and and tell them you want that in your bore size. same idea if you want to use a 2.2l or 2.4l crank.
what are your plans for this engine? keep in mind that sleeved blocks wernt really designed for street use as they have reduced cooling capacity because of the diameter of the sleeves. they were designed to run for only a few minutes at a time, and mostly on alcohol. many people tried sleeved blocks on the street years back and people have since moved away from them. there are now stronger "drop in" sleeves and girdled blocks that do everything you would want in a street driven ecotec.
