EmperorJJ1

iTrader: (5)

lol employee pricing for everyone

emiller

Why? The Civic is ugly and none of them make any torque stock.

05redline

Yeah that's it, rumors. It's not going to happen.


What cobalt aftermarket support?

jerrodmann

are you serious dude? Accord? Civic? they have been around for how many decades? car companies don't need to change models every half decade to turn a profit, honda is a key example.

GULLABLE0NE

gm may put a stop to the cobalt model in a few years but they obviously have some ideas for the LNF setup. the talks of throwing the LNF into the base camaros is still a possibility which would keep the aftermarket for sstc's alive. I for one, would like to see these cars stick around but in the next year i would like to see to body style change which should buy the balts a few more years on the market. the increasing sales for cobalts due to their MPG ratings may also deter GM from canning the cobalt model. they are currently in the top 10 selling cars and i believe they are number 3 on the list.

dawhit99

*uck the cruze, it looks like a pos anyways.

emiller

You do realize they come out with new versions every 4-7 years don't you? They just don't change the name. Its common practice for all automakers.

Accord
1st gen - 1976–1981
2nd gen - 1981–1985
3rd gen - 1986—1989
4th gen - 1990-1993
5th gen - 1994–1997
6th gen - 1998-2002
7th gen - 2003–2007
8th gen - 2008-current

Civic
1st gen - 1973–1979
2nd gen - 1980–1983
3rd gen - 1984—1987
4th gen - 1987-1991
5th gen - 1992–1995
6th gen - 1996-2000
7th gen - 2001–2005
8th gen - 2006-current

SS4EVER

Yeah I know that. My argument here is how the Cobalt model itself has only been around for 3 years. It's a very short life-span for a car name. Accord and Civic have been around for decades, but like e-miller pointed out below, they get refreshed every 3-6 years. The Cobalt is being killed entirely.

blackbird

The Neon SRT-4 did not use the all-aluminum GEMA (Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance) World Engine that was primarily developed by Hyundai for use by Chrysler, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. It was an all new engine to Chrysler and was first introduced in the Caliber/Patriot/Compass triplets. The iron block/aluminum head 2.4L Twin Cam used in the Neon SRT-4 only shares a similar displacement to the new 2.4L World Engine used in the Caliber SRT-4. Nothing else is similar as far as block, internals, head, etc.

The Neon's 2.4L was an updated version of the fully Chrysler designed and built 2.4L turbo first used in the Mexican market (with the Chrysler 2.0/2.4L engine family in general being based on and derived from the older Chrysler 2.2/2.5L fours). Most of the aftermarket support built steadily from the beginning of Neon SRT-4's release and was not in fact after it was out of production. And as far as the World Engine is concerned there's about as much stuff for it as there is for the LNF's.


This is a good topic in general if you're someone concerned about buying an SS Turbo to heavily modify. It's such a perfect balance of power, ride, and handling as-is that future upgrades weren't really a concern for me, but I could see other people looking at the car as a starting point and wanting more. Lets break it down a little just by a few components. We already have tuning support available from a few different sources for the LNF and self-tuning support should be improving (as is the case of HP Tuners) over the following months. Heck, on my SRT-4 that didn't even happen until two years after they were out of production (with recent support from SCT). The stock brakes are pretty darn good and should only need a fluid flush, maybe some stainless lines if you have a track-only car, and a set of brake pad upgrades for severe track duty.

The F35 trans can already be had with a torque biasing LSD (open diffs are usually the primary weakness in many non-LSD transaxles), they stand up reasonably well when not abused, but we will have to see what happens for clutches since it was increased in size for the '08 cars. As long as it's not a modular clutch, and even it it was, there shouldn't be an issue sourcing an upgraded clutch disc and eventually whole drop-in replacement if you so desire. I already know a couple places here in SoCal I could walk into and have them custom make a disc or my choice.

Body and interior. The press may hit on the car for being an older design with not a lot of visual upgrades for '08+ but that can be a good thing. You already have access to a wide range of product for the older Cobalts in addition to anything that will come out in the next few years.

I think the one area where we might not get a ton of choices is in the suspension department. The stock setup is a great compromise of ride and handling but I know some people will want to track the car and look for a set of adjustable coil-over/shocks. With some of the changes this year its going to take people bugging aftermarket companies for support (i.e. waving $$$ in their faces). I already talked to a contact at Tein here in California and they're still looking for someone to bring in one of the older supercharged cars to test fit a suspension. If people don't start asking for stuff it may be a little limited but we should still eventually have a few choices. If the new SS turns out to develop a following as a great auto-x and road course car all these concerns may be further minimized.


I guess another good question is what specifically do you want that you can't get or do right now? We already know how to build up the Ecotec internals. The direct injection on the LNF is a newfangled thing but appears to have a decent amount of headroom. We have tuning support. There aren't any bolt-on, complete turbocharger upgrade kits but I'd bet that's because most of the cars are still under warranty and only a select few start going that far in the first couple years after a cars introduction. And if you wanted to install a bigger turbo today you shouldn't have a problem doing it, just expect to do your own research and not have someone spoon feed you a whole pre-tuned kit (at least for another year or two).

As for other parts like upgraded intercoolers, exhausts, intakes, etc. I personally want to see and will be doing independent testing to see what the limits are of the stock pieces. I hate nothing more than aftermarket companies preying on consumers who think they need parts that really won't make a significant difference to their cars.

I think it's a great platform and even if it does have a niche future, the Cobalt gets killed, or even if the Ecotec was dropped tomorrow (unlikely), there's already a lot of stuff available with more to come.

domin8_gt

iTrader: (1)

Umm, has anybody seen or said something along the lines of this??? I wonder if the Cobalt will remain and only get refreshed. AWD is a possibility because GM anounced that all Saab's will be getting AWD standard in a few years.

Also, the pics in the link I'm providing are also of the Cruze. If you look at the wheels the Cruze looks like it could be an Aveo replacement. Suzuki has been moving more upscale lately. Afterall, the SX-4 does have AWD as an option.

http://www.rockymountainecotec.net/i...4.msg21506#new

I'm really confused now. So, please correct me if I'm wrong.

SS4EVER

Thanks Blackbird! I actually enjoy reading your responses. They are always insightful, & respectful! Also the advice you gave on drag racing really helped me too!

Yeah, actually if I do get the Cobalt SS/TC. I won't be doing a whole lot to it. For sure, intercooler upgrade, CAI, Cat-back, tune, engine mount, rear sway bar, uprgrade the rear brakes, and maybe somewhere later down the road a turbo upgrade.

I realize that many of these parts are already out or will be coming out soon. So I realize there won't be a real shortage of aftermarket availablility.

Now what's becoming more of a concern for me is over-all owning the car. I'm leasing my SS/SC, so obviously I won't have it past next summer. So I'm looking into all of the aspects of owning it (quality, TCO, re-sale value) because I will be purchasing the SS/TC so I can mod it, and not worry about being limited with the alloted miles.

The quality is becoming more of a concern for me. How will the car be in 5 years from now is what I'm wondering. And with my experience with my SS/SC, while it's been reliable, its quality has disappointed me a little. I know some people haven't had problems with theirs and I'm happy for them and wish them the best of luck with their cars. And I know this applies with all cars. I have a 01 Cavalier with over 100k miles, that's still going and has been very reliable for me.

But the Cobalt's quality hasn't been impressive in my experience. So that's now something I'm considering do I want to deal with? The issues I had with my SS/SC I may not have with the SS/TC... Who knows?

But the constant (every 3 or so months it seems) the interior bits, and things I've had problems with just seem to really have discouraged me from purchasing another Cobalt, despite how fun and over-all happy I have been with it.

And now hearing about the issues on here with people discussing their shift cables breaking, and the rotors having problems, is also a little alarming to me.

But in terms to me posting this. I think there will infact be quite some support for the LNF, and I guess that shouldn't be too much of a worry that I had before.

AWD has been a topic for the Cobalt for quite some time. I'd be willing to bet my life's savings that the Cobalt will never see AWD. It's just too expensive, and would drive the cost of the Cobalt up a lot, which goes against everything it stands for. An affordable great performing sub-compact. Which it has achieved.

The Cruze, dimension wise is just a little bit larger than the Cobalt, so no it's not the size of the Aveo, and is not the replacement for the Aveo. If anything that would be the Beat, Trax and Sparx concepts that came out.

The Cruze is the replacement for the Cobalt, no matter how much anyone here wants to argue with me on this. Chevy is not going to sell the Cobalt and Cruze side-by side... Maybe for the first year or two. Or unless they go in a new direction with the Cobalt. By keeping it as a coupe only or in fact adding AWD and competing with the Sti, Evo, etc.

blackbird

The Cruze is moving slightly upmarket and will also be sold in Europe under the Chevy brand. It's a slightly bigger car than the Cobalt and is not an Aveo replacement. GM has already stated this and then came back to say the Cobalt will be kept around a little longer. The most likely reasons I can see is that they may only keep the Cobalt coupe as a "value leader" until a coupe version of the Cruze is introduced, or since the Aveo is getting up in age it might be killed (due to various reasons ranging from possibly not meeting future emission or safety requirements, such as the impending requirement of stand stability control. for example) and GM needs a cheaper compact car to fill the space until they have a new GMDAT developed sub-compact on the market for North America. As much as some people would like to think otherwise, the Cobalt is dead, it's just a matter of will it be in one model year or maybe two.

On the Saab's they're supposed to offer XWD as an option on all future models but FWD will still remain standard. GM announced a while back that the next 9-3 which will be based on a modified Delta II/Global Compact Car platform and built in Trollhättan will get the Haldex v4.0 cross-wheel drive system. That means there is a potential it could be installed in the Cruze, Astra, and other variants but it doesn't guarantee we'll see it in a Chevy compact. I'm sure the bean counters and upper management will consider it and see if it makes business sense. It's an entry level car and the Haldex system is pretty advanced so I'm not sure they'll make use of it in an entry level car.

blackbird

And almost all of those are things I wouldn't jump out and buy right away. Does the stock intercooler heat soak? What are the inlet to outlet temperature and pressure drop measurements? Has the stock air box with a good filter been proven to be restrictive to the stock turbo or have the "gains" people noted when making their own been from the MAF sensor not reading correctly at first in aftermarket tubing? The exhaust is already a nice, smooth 2.5" system which is pretty decent for the flow and power potential of the stock K04 but the stock cats could be a restriction, but at least I haven't seen or done any testing of that so far. The rear brakes are already massive vented rotors and only do a fraction of the braking so why the need to upgrade them other than maybe pads all around?

Those are the questions I ask and wonder about. I've noticed a lot of people are concerned about lack of aftermarket parts being available for the new car but I also wonder why they think they need them. The fact is we don't know for certain on a lot of them. I'm sure there's room to improve performance from what GM gave us but then again I don't want to spend my money until I know exactly what I'm buying is going to do for me.



Ah ha, the bigger reason you're concerned. And it's something completely understandable. A lot of the touch and feel interior pieces and body stuff hasn't changed and I can see why you might be concerned about some of it. I know that it's just someone on the internet typing and expect you should take it with a grain of salt, but I've know a few people in the auto industry for a while and one of them I know did warranty tracking many moons ago for another automaker and is now working with GM. We were talking about my car at a local car club meet right after I got it and being that he's done a lot of warranty and cost-reduction type stuff he let me know the Cobalt's warranty claims numbers aren't too bad despite what some people think.

I was also personally encouraged to hear he knows the powertrain lead for the LNF via the project he's managing and had nothing but good things to say about it. He told me of a story where the bean counters were trying to cut something that was like a couple bucks per engine (which is a huge deal for a manufacturer) and he put his foot down on not changing it. Apparently the modern GM is getting better at doing things right but to paraphrase him they're still a slow turning ship and it's hard to suddenly change direction (i.e. they can be a little too procedure driven).

Again since anyone could be anyone on the internet I completely understand if you take it with that grain of salt. But there are a few consumer resources that you can research about your concerns and this is also a great place to get a small sampling of the cars. I could see certain body and trim issues maybe not being completely resolved but it is a few models years later than when you bought your car and the automakers are always trying to improve their overall industry ratings for quality lest they be left in the dust (even the worst cars today are leaps and bounds better than the top cars a decade or two ago).

The brake rotor warping issue isn't what I'd personally call alarming but is nice to know they caught it and are getting it fixed before some people notice a problem. And I'm sure there may be little issues on the LNF in this application like possibly the upper intake charge pipe mounting tab breaking like a couple people here have seen. But there's a great warranty and I trust GM and my dealer enough to take care of me that I made the plunge on one and have been extremely happy since then.

Shibito

If you're worried about reliability I would STRONGLY recommend staying with the Cobalt. Same goes for safety. Every car line has their bad eggs, maybe you got one? I have had no problems with my car and my car also saved my life. If I had rolled my truck that I had before the Balt I would surely be in the hospital or be dead. The majority of Cobalt owners on this website have not had problems with reliability and I don't believe anyone with a 08 or 09 SS has had any problems.

SS4EVER

That is a lot to think about! Well I certainly wouldn't be buying all of those parts right away that's for sure. Of course the engine needs to break in, and two for what all of that is going to cost it'll take me a year or two to get all of that done. I know that my long-term goal with it would be to eventually do a turbo swap. So I noticed that Synapse already is coming out with a intercooler. I'd probably get that closer to when I'd plan on doing the turbo swap. The CAI I'd buy only if it doesn't throw any codes, or I'd go with a GMPP CAI, just to make sure of that. I would hope that a high flow cat would be out eventually so that I could also take care of that problem when I got a cat-back exhaust. Again this would be done over a 1 to 2yr period. Oh and I don't know why I said rear brakes, I think I meant to put rear sway bar. That I just want to even further improve the Cobalt SS/TC's already phenomenal handling...

It'll definitely be taken on autocross events and track days, that will be a must if I get the Cobalt SS/TC.


Well that is good to know about then. Yeah, I'm just afraid of having the same things happen. The Cobalt has been very reliable for me despite those little quality issues. It's just something I really don't want to have happen again, especially knowing that this one I'll be buying vs the SS/SC that I'm leasing. But thanks for reassuring me!

I'm really not worried about reliability. The balt has been there for me in the little over two years that I had it. It's taken a few rear-ends for me and pretty much has been a solid vehicle, and that I've been happy with. It's just some of the common little quality issues, most of which other owners have reported on here actually. It's just that I don't have to want to worry about again you know?

I'm glad that your balt, saved you in that roll-over, and it definitely is good to know that the car pretty much saved your life or from serious injury. I actually knew someone in the Grand Blanc area that rolled his SS/SC and him and his friend had minor cuts and bruises after it. It is a safe and durable car!

I think closer to when my lease is up, I'm going to consider a couple cars (all GM!) like the Solstice Coupe, and maybe the new Camaro. And at the end whatever works out works out i guess. Thanks for the comments guys!

Mike85220

I just hope they don't pull a Dodge Caliber on the Cobalt SS.
I mean come on, look at how many levels of pure wrong was applied to make the Caliber.
If the Cobalt SS turns into a shrunk looking SUV with 4 doors, its game over...

SS4EVER

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that won't be happening. Seeing we already know what the Cobalt's replacement, the Cruze looks like it's not going to be a mini SUV like the Caliber...

SportredSS

Nobody knows for sure that the cruze- is the balts replacement either! And there have been plenty of reliability\mechanical issues with the balt SS\TC!! things that are not under warranty and are giving out after 5000 hwy miles\ 2 months old, and cost $1100 to replace, so do some research before you start spouting about things being good. Too many people BELIEVED everything G.W.Bush said to get him re-elected, without doing any research and this is why we are headed for GREAT DEPRESSION #2!!! More stupid Americans today then five or even 8 years ago, not doing any research. The damage is done!! It does not matter who's in the White House in Jan, the country is SCREWED for the next Ten years and so are the next two generations. Thanks George!! I was a DUMB republican till I did some research ( homework) and realized that Clinton left this country in real good shape\condition, but I let blind politics get in the way!!! Not any more!

This Cobalt was built during a major GM strike!! I would not expect much in terms of quality, something GM has been lacking the last 8 years of the 25 that i've been driving.

Nuff said.

SS4EVER

That's what us J-body owners were saying about the Cobalt.

I'm 99.9% sure that the Cobalt won't see more than 1 or 2 years of life after the Cruze comes to the U.S. The Cruze is being built off the new to the U.S delta II platform. It's being built where the Cobalt currently is. Dimensionally it's the same as the Cobalt. It IS replacing the Cobalt. Of course 2010 is a little over a year away so GM is going to re-main tight lipped about it, but I'm sure next year they may publicly release more info.

At the longest they may keep the Cobalt 2dr around until the Cruze Coupe comes out. But you can't sell two of the same kinds of cars, when they will only compete with eachother GM knows this. Any auto company does. The Cobalt's days are numbered. There's too many facts supporting this.

motogp34

So, their will be a 09 & 2010 cobalt ss/tc ???

HB_SS/TC

iTrader: (1)

A Cobalt is a renamed Cavalier and the Cruze is a renamed Cobalt. Big deal

SS4EVER

There's already an 09MY SS/TC out there. Because people have already bought them. But it's 2010MY that's going to be the big ? to see if the Cobalt SS/TC will be around still. I think it prob will but I think it'll be the last MY of the Cobalt SS/TC... Maybe 2011 or 2012 depending when the Cruze Coupe comes out.

Well, they're replacements for the FWD sub-compact spot in Chevy's line-up. Obviously the J-body Cavalier and Delta platform Cobalt are on different platforms, problem with what most critics of the Cobalt say is that its looks weren't distinctive enough from the Cavalier. Now the Cruze looks very much upscale from the Cobalt, although it is riding on the updated Delta platform, it's going to be a much different car indeed.

Boomer

iTrader: (1)

x2 the cobalt is everywhere, and they seem to be one of chevys bail out vehicles. It has been really the only car chevy has produced to keep up with the japenese tuner market. I find it hard to believe that chevy will actually can this car. It will make me very sad if they do get rid of it!

badg1rl

well coming from a more business standpoint...the way i look at it is as such. regardless of whether the cobalt goes the way of the dinosaur or not, there will be vendors out there supporting the car for years to come. we have had a ford probe company in business for a long time now, and the car stopped being made 10 yrs ago but the following is still there and going really strong. as long as there are supporters there will be some companies out there making parts and continuing to r & d.
if you look at it also in this way you may see an advantage to companies making and selling product for a car which is not around anymore...the longer the cars stick around and change hands, the cheaper they get to buy, they become that 17 yr olds 1st project car or a car a parent buys for their kid because its affordable, nice, good on gas etc. and most importantly something that requires a 1 shot deal, 1 payment, and thats it. so the used price of the car goes down which in turn opens up the possibility for more kids to buy aftermarket being as they wont have a car payment to make.
its maybe not the most 100% truth for everyone in this world, but it IS what ive seen happen. aftermarket thrives on the young market....and if everyone is paying for a brand new cruze, that leaves little room to buy aftermarket parts after insurance and car payment. look at how many young people on this board have brand new cars and are paying 400+ a month in a car payment and 2-3 hundred in insurance..ive been there and done that...and i know what its like being in college, working 2 jobs, paying for a new car, insurance, school, books..... my aftermarket car part money was few and far between.
so i guess we will see where this all goes but i think aftermarket wise, there will be plenty of people still willing to support the community of enthusiasts.

motogp34

Dealers out here are saying their wont be any SS/SC after 09 ???