'03-'05 cavy tranny
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 10-06-05
Posts: 10,944
Likes: 2
From: Seneca, South Carolina
sweet! so basically for me to perform the swap, I'd just need to grab the f23 trans and throwout bearing assembly. Then my clutch/flywheel/axles and such would go right back in?
also, you think you need to rev high on a f23, go try a f35 out. It's so long. If you don't rev higher, you shift and just fall completely out of the powerband. Hence why I bumped the rev limit after my first track visit from 6500-7500. The shift to 2nd gear would cause my car to fall flat on it's face with stock rev limit.
what the hell are you talking about? 6 speed conversion? where? and no one has even done this have they? If this is even possible, then WHY hasn't anyone done this? Sounds like an Awesome upgrade!
also, you think you need to rev high on a f23, go try a f35 out. It's so long. If you don't rev higher, you shift and just fall completely out of the powerband. Hence why I bumped the rev limit after my first track visit from 6500-7500. The shift to 2nd gear would cause my car to fall flat on it's face with stock rev limit.
You'll have more parasitic loss with the F23 over the F35. 3 axis vs. a 2 axis transaxle.
I really feel the best solution is to upgrade to the Quaife close ratio 6 speed conversion, Quaife LSD if not equipped and an Exedy single disc clutch. I would bet that combination will hold more power than the sleeves and rod bearings of the LSJ block can withstand.
I really feel the best solution is to upgrade to the Quaife close ratio 6 speed conversion, Quaife LSD if not equipped and an Exedy single disc clutch. I would bet that combination will hold more power than the sleeves and rod bearings of the LSJ block can withstand.
Last edited by ralliartist; Mar 8, 2008 at 01:28 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
It runs about $3k iirc and companies like Turbo Tech and Dezod have an arrangement with Quaife in which they will do the install upon purchase for free.
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
3700$ which includes the install at Turbo Tech Racing.
http://www.turbotechracing.com/produ...idproduct=5076
http://www.turbotechracing.com/produ...idproduct=5076
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 10-06-05
Posts: 10,944
Likes: 2
From: Seneca, South Carolina
RPM 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear 6th Gear
500 3 5 7 9 11 14
600 4 6 8 11 14 16
700 4 7 10 13 16 19
800 5 8 11 15 18 22
900 6 9 13 16 21 24
1000 6 10 14 18 23 27
1100 7 11 15 20 25 30
1200 8 12 17 22 28 33
1300 8 13 18 24 30 35
1400 9 14 20 26 32 38
1500 10 15 21 27 34 41
1600 10 16 22 29 37 43
1700 11 17 24 31 39 46
1800 11 18 25 33 41 49
1900 12 19 27 35 44 52
2000 13 20 28 37 46 54
2100 13 21 29 38 48 57
2200 14 22 31 40 50 60
2300 15 23 32 42 53 62
2400 15 24 34 44 55 65
2500 16 25 35 46 57 68
2600 17 26 36 48 60 71
2700 17 27 38 49 62 73
2800 18 28 39 51 64 76
2900 18 29 40 53 66 79
3000 19 30 42 55 69 81
3100 20 31 43 57 71 84
3200 20 32 45 58 73 87
3300 21 33 46 60 76 90
3400 22 34 47 62 78 92
3500 22 35 49 64 80 95
3600 23 36 50 66 83 98
3700 24 37 52 68 85 100
3800 24 38 53 69 87 103
3900 25 39 54 71 89 106
4000 25 40 56 73 92 109
4100 26 41 57 75 94 111
4200 27 41 59 77 96 114
4300 27 42 60 79 99 117
4400 28 43 61 80 101 119
4500 29 44 63 82 103 122
4600 29 45 64 84 105 125
4700 30 46 66 86 108 128
4800 31 47 67 88 110 130
4900 31 48 68 90 112 133
5000 32 49 70 91 115 136
5100 32 50 71 93 117 138
5200 33 51 73 95 119 141
5300 34 52 74 97 122 144
5400 34 53 75 99 124 146
5500 35 54 77 101 126 149
5600 36 55 78 102 128 152
5700 36 56 80 104 131 155
5800 37 57 81 106 133 157
5900 38 58 82 108 135 160
6000 38 59 84 110 138 163
6100 39 60 85 111 140 165
6200 39 61 87 113 142 168
6300 40 62 88 115 144 171
6400 41 63 89 117 147 174
6500 41 64 91 119 149 176
6600 42 65 92 121 151 179
6700 43 66 94 122 154 182
6800 43 67 95 124 156 184
6900 44 68 96 126 158 187
7000 45 69 98 128 160 190
7100 45 70 99 130 163 193
7200 46 71 101 132 165 195
7300 46 72 102 133 167 198
7400 47 73 103 135 170 201
7500 48 74 105 137 172 203
okay, so here is a quick calculator when I'm on my 26" MT slicks at the track with a 7500rpm limit. Quaife 6 speed.
RPM 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear 6th Gear
500 3 5 7 10 14
600 3 6 9 12 17
700 4 7 10 14 20
800 4 8 12 16 23
900 5 9 13 18 26
1000 5 10 15 20 28
1100 6 11 16 22 31
1200 7 12 17 24 34
1300 7 13 19 26 37
1400 8 14 20 28 40
1500 8 15 22 30 43
1600 9 16 23 32 46
1700 9 17 25 34 48
1800 10 18 26 36 51
1900 10 19 28 38 54
2000 11 20 29 40 57
2100 12 21 31 42 60
2200 12 21 32 44 63
2300 13 22 33 46 65
2400 13 23 35 48 68
2500 14 24 36 50 71
2600 14 25 38 52 74
2700 15 26 39 54 77
2800 15 27 41 56 80
2900 16 28 42 58 83
3000 16 29 44 60 85
3100 17 30 45 62 88
3200 18 31 47 64 91
3300 18 32 48 66 94
3400 19 33 49 68 97
3500 19 34 51 70 100
3600 20 35 52 72 102
3700 20 36 54 74 105
3800 21 37 55 76 108
3900 21 38 57 78 111
4000 22 39 58 80 114
4100 22 40 60 82 117
4200 23 41 61 84 119
4300 24 42 63 86 122
4400 24 43 64 88 125
4500 25 44 65 90 128
4600 25 45 67 92 131
4700 26 46 68 94 134
4800 26 47 70 96 137
4900 27 48 71 98 139
5000 27 49 73 100 142
5100 28 50 74 102 145
5200 29 51 76 104 148
5300 29 52 77 106 151
5400 30 53 79 108 154
5500 30 54 80 110 156
5600 31 55 81 112 159
5700 31 56 83 114 162
5800 32 57 84 116 165
5900 32 58 86 118 168
6000 33 59 87 120 171
6100 33 60 89 122 174
6200 34 61 90 124 176
6300 35 62 92 126 179
6400 35 63 93 128 182
6500 36 63 95 130 185
6600 36 64 96 132 188
6700 37 65 97 134 191
6800 37 66 99 136 193
6900 38 67 100 138 196
7000 38 68 102 140 199
7100 39 69 103 142 202
7200 39 70 105 144 205
7300 40 71 106 146 208
7400 41 72 108 148 211
7500 41 73 109 150 213
here is the f23 trans, with my 26" tall MT slicks.
500 3 5 7 9 11 14
600 4 6 8 11 14 16
700 4 7 10 13 16 19
800 5 8 11 15 18 22
900 6 9 13 16 21 24
1000 6 10 14 18 23 27
1100 7 11 15 20 25 30
1200 8 12 17 22 28 33
1300 8 13 18 24 30 35
1400 9 14 20 26 32 38
1500 10 15 21 27 34 41
1600 10 16 22 29 37 43
1700 11 17 24 31 39 46
1800 11 18 25 33 41 49
1900 12 19 27 35 44 52
2000 13 20 28 37 46 54
2100 13 21 29 38 48 57
2200 14 22 31 40 50 60
2300 15 23 32 42 53 62
2400 15 24 34 44 55 65
2500 16 25 35 46 57 68
2600 17 26 36 48 60 71
2700 17 27 38 49 62 73
2800 18 28 39 51 64 76
2900 18 29 40 53 66 79
3000 19 30 42 55 69 81
3100 20 31 43 57 71 84
3200 20 32 45 58 73 87
3300 21 33 46 60 76 90
3400 22 34 47 62 78 92
3500 22 35 49 64 80 95
3600 23 36 50 66 83 98
3700 24 37 52 68 85 100
3800 24 38 53 69 87 103
3900 25 39 54 71 89 106
4000 25 40 56 73 92 109
4100 26 41 57 75 94 111
4200 27 41 59 77 96 114
4300 27 42 60 79 99 117
4400 28 43 61 80 101 119
4500 29 44 63 82 103 122
4600 29 45 64 84 105 125
4700 30 46 66 86 108 128
4800 31 47 67 88 110 130
4900 31 48 68 90 112 133
5000 32 49 70 91 115 136
5100 32 50 71 93 117 138
5200 33 51 73 95 119 141
5300 34 52 74 97 122 144
5400 34 53 75 99 124 146
5500 35 54 77 101 126 149
5600 36 55 78 102 128 152
5700 36 56 80 104 131 155
5800 37 57 81 106 133 157
5900 38 58 82 108 135 160
6000 38 59 84 110 138 163
6100 39 60 85 111 140 165
6200 39 61 87 113 142 168
6300 40 62 88 115 144 171
6400 41 63 89 117 147 174
6500 41 64 91 119 149 176
6600 42 65 92 121 151 179
6700 43 66 94 122 154 182
6800 43 67 95 124 156 184
6900 44 68 96 126 158 187
7000 45 69 98 128 160 190
7100 45 70 99 130 163 193
7200 46 71 101 132 165 195
7300 46 72 102 133 167 198
7400 47 73 103 135 170 201
7500 48 74 105 137 172 203
okay, so here is a quick calculator when I'm on my 26" MT slicks at the track with a 7500rpm limit. Quaife 6 speed.
RPM 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear 6th Gear
500 3 5 7 10 14
600 3 6 9 12 17
700 4 7 10 14 20
800 4 8 12 16 23
900 5 9 13 18 26
1000 5 10 15 20 28
1100 6 11 16 22 31
1200 7 12 17 24 34
1300 7 13 19 26 37
1400 8 14 20 28 40
1500 8 15 22 30 43
1600 9 16 23 32 46
1700 9 17 25 34 48
1800 10 18 26 36 51
1900 10 19 28 38 54
2000 11 20 29 40 57
2100 12 21 31 42 60
2200 12 21 32 44 63
2300 13 22 33 46 65
2400 13 23 35 48 68
2500 14 24 36 50 71
2600 14 25 38 52 74
2700 15 26 39 54 77
2800 15 27 41 56 80
2900 16 28 42 58 83
3000 16 29 44 60 85
3100 17 30 45 62 88
3200 18 31 47 64 91
3300 18 32 48 66 94
3400 19 33 49 68 97
3500 19 34 51 70 100
3600 20 35 52 72 102
3700 20 36 54 74 105
3800 21 37 55 76 108
3900 21 38 57 78 111
4000 22 39 58 80 114
4100 22 40 60 82 117
4200 23 41 61 84 119
4300 24 42 63 86 122
4400 24 43 64 88 125
4500 25 44 65 90 128
4600 25 45 67 92 131
4700 26 46 68 94 134
4800 26 47 70 96 137
4900 27 48 71 98 139
5000 27 49 73 100 142
5100 28 50 74 102 145
5200 29 51 76 104 148
5300 29 52 77 106 151
5400 30 53 79 108 154
5500 30 54 80 110 156
5600 31 55 81 112 159
5700 31 56 83 114 162
5800 32 57 84 116 165
5900 32 58 86 118 168
6000 33 59 87 120 171
6100 33 60 89 122 174
6200 34 61 90 124 176
6300 35 62 92 126 179
6400 35 63 93 128 182
6500 36 63 95 130 185
6600 36 64 96 132 188
6700 37 65 97 134 191
6800 37 66 99 136 193
6900 38 67 100 138 196
7000 38 68 102 140 199
7100 39 69 103 142 202
7200 39 70 105 144 205
7300 40 71 106 146 208
7400 41 72 108 148 211
7500 41 73 109 150 213
here is the f23 trans, with my 26" tall MT slicks.
Last edited by ralliartist; Mar 8, 2008 at 01:43 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Joined: 03-03-06
Posts: 4,958
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
I plan on picking up a spare transaxle as my next project and installing the 6 speed, LSD and Exedy in one swoop. I was going to do it now but the TVS has me tied down for a while which will probably be till the end of the race season.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 10-06-05
Posts: 10,944
Likes: 2
From: Seneca, South Carolina
RPM 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear 6th Gear
500 3 5 8 11 13
600 3 7 10 13 16
700 4 8 11 15 19
800 5 9 13 17 22
900 5 10 15 19 24
1000 6 11 16 21 27
1100 6 12 18 24 30
1200 7 13 19 26 32
1300 7 14 21 28 35
1400 8 15 23 30 38
1500 8 16 24 32 40
1600 9 17 26 34 43
1700 10 18 28 36 46
1800 10 20 29 39 48
1900 11 21 31 41 51
2000 11 22 32 43 54
2100 12 23 34 45 56
2200 12 24 36 47 59
2300 13 25 37 49 62
2400 14 26 39 52 65
2500 14 27 40 54 67
2600 15 28 42 56 70
2700 15 29 44 58 73
2800 16 30 45 60 75
2900 16 31 47 62 78
3000 17 33 49 64 81
3100 18 34 50 67 83
3200 18 35 52 69 86
3300 19 36 53 71 89
3400 19 37 55 73 91
3500 20 38 57 75 94
3600 20 39 58 77 97
3700 21 40 60 79 100
3800 21 41 62 82 102
3900 22 42 63 84 105
4000 23 43 65 86 108
4100 23 44 66 88 110
4200 24 46 68 90 113
4300 24 47 70 92 116
4400 25 48 71 94 118
4500 25 49 73 97 121
4600 26 50 74 99 124
4700 27 51 76 101 126
4800 27 52 78 103 129
4900 28 53 79 105 132
5000 28 54 81 107 134
5100 29 55 83 109 137
5200 29 56 84 112 140
5300 30 58 86 114 143
5400 31 59 87 116 145
5500 31 60 89 118 148
5600 32 61 91 120 151
5700 32 62 92 122 153
5800 33 63 94 124 156
5900 33 64 95 127 159
6000 34 65 97 129 161
6100 34 66 99 131 164
6200 35 67 100 133 167
6300 36 68 102 135 169
6400 36 69 104 137 172
6500 37 71 105 139 175
6600 37 72 107 142 178
6700 38 73 108 144 180
6800 38 74 110 146 183
6900 39 75 112 148 186
7000 40 76 113 150 188
7100 40 77 115 152 191
7200 41 78 117 155 194
7300 41 79 118 157 196
7400 42 80 120 159 199
7500 42 81 121 161 202
and here is our f35 stock gearing with my 26" tall MT slicks at the track gearing.
OBVIOUSLY, the quaife 6speed gearing is phenominal for someone like me/you. But it's so expensive. Is it really worth the cost?
500 3 5 8 11 13
600 3 7 10 13 16
700 4 8 11 15 19
800 5 9 13 17 22
900 5 10 15 19 24
1000 6 11 16 21 27
1100 6 12 18 24 30
1200 7 13 19 26 32
1300 7 14 21 28 35
1400 8 15 23 30 38
1500 8 16 24 32 40
1600 9 17 26 34 43
1700 10 18 28 36 46
1800 10 20 29 39 48
1900 11 21 31 41 51
2000 11 22 32 43 54
2100 12 23 34 45 56
2200 12 24 36 47 59
2300 13 25 37 49 62
2400 14 26 39 52 65
2500 14 27 40 54 67
2600 15 28 42 56 70
2700 15 29 44 58 73
2800 16 30 45 60 75
2900 16 31 47 62 78
3000 17 33 49 64 81
3100 18 34 50 67 83
3200 18 35 52 69 86
3300 19 36 53 71 89
3400 19 37 55 73 91
3500 20 38 57 75 94
3600 20 39 58 77 97
3700 21 40 60 79 100
3800 21 41 62 82 102
3900 22 42 63 84 105
4000 23 43 65 86 108
4100 23 44 66 88 110
4200 24 46 68 90 113
4300 24 47 70 92 116
4400 25 48 71 94 118
4500 25 49 73 97 121
4600 26 50 74 99 124
4700 27 51 76 101 126
4800 27 52 78 103 129
4900 28 53 79 105 132
5000 28 54 81 107 134
5100 29 55 83 109 137
5200 29 56 84 112 140
5300 30 58 86 114 143
5400 31 59 87 116 145
5500 31 60 89 118 148
5600 32 61 91 120 151
5700 32 62 92 122 153
5800 33 63 94 124 156
5900 33 64 95 127 159
6000 34 65 97 129 161
6100 34 66 99 131 164
6200 35 67 100 133 167
6300 36 68 102 135 169
6400 36 69 104 137 172
6500 37 71 105 139 175
6600 37 72 107 142 178
6700 38 73 108 144 180
6800 38 74 110 146 183
6900 39 75 112 148 186
7000 40 76 113 150 188
7100 40 77 115 152 191
7200 41 78 117 155 194
7300 41 79 118 157 196
7400 42 80 120 159 199
7500 42 81 121 161 202
and here is our f35 stock gearing with my 26" tall MT slicks at the track gearing.
OBVIOUSLY, the quaife 6speed gearing is phenominal for someone like me/you. But it's so expensive. Is it really worth the cost?
Last edited by ralliartist; Mar 8, 2008 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Joined: 03-03-06
Posts: 4,958
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Since it was released last year till now its dropped in price about 700 dollars and I'm sure will continue to do so as more units are purchased.
New Member
Joined: 11-15-06
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Jackson, NJ
you guys have to get past the "more is better" motto.
6 speeds suck dick for drag racing. have you ever driven a 6 speed before? You think your gearing is short?
6s are ideal for road racing or just daily driving or cruising, whatever. But if you're looking for outright acceleration, a 6 speed is not what you want.
also, welding the differential is a big time no-no on a street car. Anytime you turn the wheel, you'll be putting load on the welds. Also, in a FWD application, since they turn AND pull the car, you'll lose control due to one wheel losing traction/spinning the improper speed. On a 'spooled' RWD car its not AS bad.. but in a FWD where the front wheels do all the work, I'd say it'd probably be a death wish.
Not to mention, the welds WILL break. Just a question of when.
the quaiffe LSD upgrade for the F23 should be more than enough to upgrade it. I've never heard of gears being lunched.. its always differential problems.
I'll be sure to check out the 2.4 s/c thread in a little while.
but back to the 'more is better' thing, that being said, you'd think I'd want to swap the 2.4 into my car for maximum displacement.. right? this is true.. but an all motor 4 cylinder, revs are more important. The 2.4 wouldn't last very long at the RPM i'm looking to spin... the 2.2 is a little bit better, but if the 2.0 is going to be as simple as a swap as I think it is (not to mention with diamond 10.5:1 compression pistons (.5 compression higher than the jbody) and the rod and crank strength) its clear the 2.0 is a very good choice for a high revving engine.. especially since it'll be n/a and revving high is the only way to make power.
6 speeds suck dick for drag racing. have you ever driven a 6 speed before? You think your gearing is short?
6s are ideal for road racing or just daily driving or cruising, whatever. But if you're looking for outright acceleration, a 6 speed is not what you want.
also, welding the differential is a big time no-no on a street car. Anytime you turn the wheel, you'll be putting load on the welds. Also, in a FWD application, since they turn AND pull the car, you'll lose control due to one wheel losing traction/spinning the improper speed. On a 'spooled' RWD car its not AS bad.. but in a FWD where the front wheels do all the work, I'd say it'd probably be a death wish.
Not to mention, the welds WILL break. Just a question of when.
the quaiffe LSD upgrade for the F23 should be more than enough to upgrade it. I've never heard of gears being lunched.. its always differential problems.
I'll be sure to check out the 2.4 s/c thread in a little while.
but back to the 'more is better' thing, that being said, you'd think I'd want to swap the 2.4 into my car for maximum displacement.. right? this is true.. but an all motor 4 cylinder, revs are more important. The 2.4 wouldn't last very long at the RPM i'm looking to spin... the 2.2 is a little bit better, but if the 2.0 is going to be as simple as a swap as I think it is (not to mention with diamond 10.5:1 compression pistons (.5 compression higher than the jbody) and the rod and crank strength) its clear the 2.0 is a very good choice for a high revving engine.. especially since it'll be n/a and revving high is the only way to make power.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 10-06-05
Posts: 10,944
Likes: 2
From: Seneca, South Carolina
I think the f23 option is still a very cheap alternative and OBVIOUSLY has better gearing than our stock trans. But I agree that the Quaife 6 speed option is THE BEST, but man so top dollar. That's more than the HTV1320 costs. Where is turbotechracing anyway?
New Member
Joined: 11-15-06
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Jackson, NJ
UPDATE:
a bit of digging...:
LSJ flywheel listed on ebay. I've compared this to the flywheel on my engine and they are identical.
L61 flywheel listed on ebay. I have this at my house, this is definetly it.
As you can see, they both have 3 dowels for alignment, and 6 mounting bolts. I've measure the cobalt flywheel as a 1 1/8" mounting height (face of flywheel to top of clutch mount) When I get home, I'm going to measure my jbody flywheel and if the measurement is the same, the Jbody clutch on a Cobalt SS flywheel will complete this swap.
the only problem I can see is the diameter of the LSJ clutch looks to be larger than the Jbody clutch. A wrench in the gears so-to-say. I'll be taking that measurement now to compare when I get home.
a bit of digging...:
LSJ flywheel listed on ebay. I've compared this to the flywheel on my engine and they are identical.
L61 flywheel listed on ebay. I have this at my house, this is definetly it.
As you can see, they both have 3 dowels for alignment, and 6 mounting bolts. I've measure the cobalt flywheel as a 1 1/8" mounting height (face of flywheel to top of clutch mount) When I get home, I'm going to measure my jbody flywheel and if the measurement is the same, the Jbody clutch on a Cobalt SS flywheel will complete this swap.
the only problem I can see is the diameter of the LSJ clutch looks to be larger than the Jbody clutch. A wrench in the gears so-to-say. I'll be taking that measurement now to compare when I get home.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-03-06
Posts: 4,958
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh, PA
you guys have to get past the "more is better" motto.
6 speeds suck dick for drag racing. have you ever driven a 6 speed before? You think your gearing is short?
6s are ideal for road racing or just daily driving or cruising, whatever. But if you're looking for outright acceleration, a 6 speed is not what you want.
6 speeds suck dick for drag racing. have you ever driven a 6 speed before? You think your gearing is short?
6s are ideal for road racing or just daily driving or cruising, whatever. But if you're looking for outright acceleration, a 6 speed is not what you want.
I'm not swaying towards the more is better option, just the gear ratios of the Quaife swap suit drag racing much more than any alternative transmission can provide plus it maintains the stock case, mounting, and axle options so modifications needed are limited.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 10-06-05
Posts: 10,944
Likes: 2
From: Seneca, South Carolina
you guys have to get past the "more is better" motto.
6 speeds suck dick for drag racing. have you ever driven a 6 speed before? You think your gearing is short?
6s are ideal for road racing or just daily driving or cruising, whatever. But if you're looking for outright acceleration, a 6 speed is not what you want.
also, welding the differential is a big time no-no on a street car. Anytime you turn the wheel, you'll be putting load on the welds. Also, in a FWD application, since they turn AND pull the car, you'll lose control due to one wheel losing traction/spinning the improper speed. On a 'spooled' RWD car its not AS bad.. but in a FWD where the front wheels do all the work, I'd say it'd probably be a death wish.
Not to mention, the welds WILL break. Just a question of when.
the quaiffe LSD upgrade for the F23 should be more than enough to upgrade it. I've never heard of gears being lunched.. its always differential problems.
I'll be sure to check out the 2.4 s/c thread in a little while.
but back to the 'more is better' thing, that being said, you'd think I'd want to swap the 2.4 into my car for maximum displacement.. right? this is true.. but an all motor 4 cylinder, revs are more important. The 2.4 wouldn't last very long at the RPM i'm looking to spin... the 2.2 is a little bit better, but if the 2.0 is going to be as simple as a swap as I think it is (not to mention with diamond 10.5:1 compression pistons (.5 compression higher than the jbody) and the rod and crank strength) its clear the 2.0 is a very good choice for a high revving engine.. especially since it'll be n/a and revving high is the only way to make power.
6 speeds suck dick for drag racing. have you ever driven a 6 speed before? You think your gearing is short?
6s are ideal for road racing or just daily driving or cruising, whatever. But if you're looking for outright acceleration, a 6 speed is not what you want.
also, welding the differential is a big time no-no on a street car. Anytime you turn the wheel, you'll be putting load on the welds. Also, in a FWD application, since they turn AND pull the car, you'll lose control due to one wheel losing traction/spinning the improper speed. On a 'spooled' RWD car its not AS bad.. but in a FWD where the front wheels do all the work, I'd say it'd probably be a death wish.
Not to mention, the welds WILL break. Just a question of when.
the quaiffe LSD upgrade for the F23 should be more than enough to upgrade it. I've never heard of gears being lunched.. its always differential problems.
I'll be sure to check out the 2.4 s/c thread in a little while.
but back to the 'more is better' thing, that being said, you'd think I'd want to swap the 2.4 into my car for maximum displacement.. right? this is true.. but an all motor 4 cylinder, revs are more important. The 2.4 wouldn't last very long at the RPM i'm looking to spin... the 2.2 is a little bit better, but if the 2.0 is going to be as simple as a swap as I think it is (not to mention with diamond 10.5:1 compression pistons (.5 compression higher than the jbody) and the rod and crank strength) its clear the 2.0 is a very good choice for a high revving engine.. especially since it'll be n/a and revving high is the only way to make power.
BUT as of right now, I won't be getting out of 3rd gear in my car for a while. With my stock ratios, I'd have to trap over 120 to get into 4th. Plus the car still kind of falls on it's face when shifting to 2nd gear. Notice when I shift to 2nd, I'd be below 4K rpms.
BUT, with a cheap upgrade like a f23 trans, and the awesome gearing it gives, I'd have to turn 110mph or a little better, which isn't hard to do, in order to get into 4th gear. So with my current set up(plus a few things), I'd be pretty close to redlining 3rd gear which would be great, and then bolt on a HTV 1320 and I'd be getting into 4th gear. Awesome. So I'm definitely considering going the f23 route.
UPDATE:
a bit of digging...:
LSJ flywheel listed on ebay. I've compared this to the flywheel on my engine and they are identical.
L61 flywheel listed on ebay. I have this at my house, this is definetly it.
As you can see, they both have 3 dowels for alignment, and 6 mounting bolts. I've measure the cobalt flywheel as a 1 1/8" mounting height (face of flywheel to top of clutch mount) When I get home, I'm going to measure my jbody flywheel and if the measurement is the same, the Jbody clutch on a Cobalt SS flywheel will complete this swap.
the only problem I can see is the diameter of the LSJ clutch looks to be larger than the Jbody clutch. A wrench in the gears so-to-say. I'll be taking that measurement now to compare when I get home.
a bit of digging...:
LSJ flywheel listed on ebay. I've compared this to the flywheel on my engine and they are identical.
L61 flywheel listed on ebay. I have this at my house, this is definetly it.
As you can see, they both have 3 dowels for alignment, and 6 mounting bolts. I've measure the cobalt flywheel as a 1 1/8" mounting height (face of flywheel to top of clutch mount) When I get home, I'm going to measure my jbody flywheel and if the measurement is the same, the Jbody clutch on a Cobalt SS flywheel will complete this swap.
the only problem I can see is the diameter of the LSJ clutch looks to be larger than the Jbody clutch. A wrench in the gears so-to-say. I'll be taking that measurement now to compare when I get home.
Last edited by ralliartist; Mar 8, 2008 at 02:06 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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I don't think there is a "best" way.
It seems the cheap option to gain better gearing is going to be an f23 trans. But seems like it is going to require a tad bit of work.
The most expensive way, and requires no work except buying the damn part since installation is included, is the quaife 6 speed conversion.
yea for real. Swapping parts like hondas. LOL. what have we come to?
It seems the cheap option to gain better gearing is going to be an f23 trans. But seems like it is going to require a tad bit of work.
The most expensive way, and requires no work except buying the damn part since installation is included, is the quaife 6 speed conversion.
yea for real. Swapping parts like hondas. LOL. what have we come to?
Last edited by ralliartist; Mar 8, 2008 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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UPDATE:
checking out my fidanza flywheel for the 2.2 the cobalt clutch and jbody clutch are VERY different (really F35 vs F23 clutch)
my guess is the F23 throwout bearing with the LSJ flywheel and clutch is the swap solution.
best way to know is to try. I'll update any further findings.
checking out my fidanza flywheel for the 2.2 the cobalt clutch and jbody clutch are VERY different (really F35 vs F23 clutch)
my guess is the F23 throwout bearing with the LSJ flywheel and clutch is the swap solution.
best way to know is to try. I'll update any further findings.
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on a personal note:
doing more research into engine dynamics, high rpm stability, and rev-friendliness the LSJ will have, has me pretty much dead set on trying out the LSJ block under an L61 head and in my jbody with my F23 hooked up to it.
dyno pulls of the L61 showed that in upper rpms it starts to run out of a lot of breath, but this is because of its rod ratio, and shorter rod length in comparison to the LSJ.
I'm hoping to push an LSJ with factory crank rods and diamond 10.5:1 pistons into the 9500rpm range with a ported head and upgraded valvetrain and kinsler ITBs. custom cams and custom header to follow soon thereafter.
this would be all motor of course
.2 liters is well worth the extra RPM and balance of a square engine.
doing more research into engine dynamics, high rpm stability, and rev-friendliness the LSJ will have, has me pretty much dead set on trying out the LSJ block under an L61 head and in my jbody with my F23 hooked up to it.
dyno pulls of the L61 showed that in upper rpms it starts to run out of a lot of breath, but this is because of its rod ratio, and shorter rod length in comparison to the LSJ.
I'm hoping to push an LSJ with factory crank rods and diamond 10.5:1 pistons into the 9500rpm range with a ported head and upgraded valvetrain and kinsler ITBs. custom cams and custom header to follow soon thereafter.
this would be all motor of course
.2 liters is well worth the extra RPM and balance of a square engine.
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Joined: 11-15-06
Posts: 137
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From: Jackson, NJ
another season of all motor.
boost can wait. there is maybe one or two other guys other than me n ben doing ecotec all motor stuff... I like the challenge. seems like everyone and their mother has a turbo jbody.
besides, if the LSJ swap is successful, their factory bottom ends are good for what, like 400hp if not more?
i could always just change out the pistons, upgrade the clutch and put a big ass turbo on it later
boost can wait. there is maybe one or two other guys other than me n ben doing ecotec all motor stuff... I like the challenge. seems like everyone and their mother has a turbo jbody.
besides, if the LSJ swap is successful, their factory bottom ends are good for what, like 400hp if not more?
i could always just change out the pistons, upgrade the clutch and put a big ass turbo on it later
Last edited by DaFlyinSkwirl; Mar 9, 2008 at 03:14 PM.
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can't wait to hear the results also. If all that is needed is the tranny and throw-out bearing assembly, then I'm definitely game. Apparently we are gonna need to utilize the LSJ clutch assembly though. If it works for you, I'm in.
an other season of all motor.
boost can wait. there is maybe one or two other guys other than me n ben doing ecotec all motor stuff... I like the challenge. seems like everyone and their mother has a turbo jbody.
besides, if the LSJ swap is successful, they're factory bottom ends are good for what, like 400hp if not more?
i could always just change out the pistons, upgrade the clutch and put a big ass turbo on it later
boost can wait. there is maybe one or two other guys other than me n ben doing ecotec all motor stuff... I like the challenge. seems like everyone and their mother has a turbo jbody.
besides, if the LSJ swap is successful, they're factory bottom ends are good for what, like 400hp if not more?
i could always just change out the pistons, upgrade the clutch and put a big ass turbo on it later
you will run into an issue putting an lsj into the j-body and running it opn the factory computer. 06 and prior 2.2l had a 7x reluctor wheel, everything else has a 58x. i do have the answer for this, shoot me a pm
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From: Jackson, NJ
stock lsj bottom end is good for 300hp, but its just the rods and pistons that hold it back. stock crank and block is good to 550 or so.
you will run into an issue putting an lsj into the j-body and running it opn the factory computer. 06 and prior 2.2l had a 7x reluctor wheel, everything else has a 58x. i do have the answer for this, shoot me a pm
you will run into an issue putting an lsj into the j-body and running it opn the factory computer. 06 and prior 2.2l had a 7x reluctor wheel, everything else has a 58x. i do have the answer for this, shoot me a pm