steelmesh

My methanol injection tank was recently found completely frozen with outside temps ranging from 0-10F. That is down to -17C, if you reference the chart linked below you will note that product I received last January (4 gallons) has a content of 0-25% methanol. The product is clear and I have yet to learn chemistry on how to test the content with accuracy. I have set Boost Juice on fire by pouring it on concrete and give it fire (I was looking into Canadian washer fluid at the time). Devilsown brew did not flash either, but I trusted this company and attributed it to my testing method failing at the time.

http://novosolution.ca/images/Freezi...s-Methanol.pdf

They advertise 49% Methanol content: http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/...sown-brew.html

I ended up dumping a bottle of heet in it, but I hope the pump wasn't damaged/weakend internally. It was probably frozen solid for 3 weeks, I am not tuned for water/meth in the Cruze, so I wasn't running it. My copper plugs are about 10k miles, so was getting blow out, I was acid testing it with the methanol injection, but nothing happened.

I run Boost Juice in my Solstice and I got this Devilsown Brew for my Cruze.


The company Devilsown at Alcohol-Injection.com is unresponsive at this time...

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

thats why i mix my own, you never know what they are selling you.

their site shows the freezing point to be -54c, and claiming 49% methanol content, however according to that chart -54c freezing point is closer to 60% methanol by volume (more than likely they are mixing the stuff by volume). it looks like their stuff is nowhere near what they claim it to be.

ECaulk

iTrader: (6)

Mixing alcohol by volume isn't a good idea, use wt% it's significantly better.

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

yea but mixing by volume is so much easier, you dont need a scale.

cw383

iTrader: (6)

When I ran meth I would pull the meth injector and holder a few times a year to clean/inspect. I ran Boost Juice. It would have this gummy looking red residue that would be around the injector screen. Maybe the dye? Whatever it was it bugged me enough for the bi-annual inspections. No relation to the freezing topic, just throwing it out there. I would pull the injector or at least the hose and energize the injector motor and see how it flows out. If its in the trunk have a friend help out.

jdbaugh1

iTrader: (1)

I mix by volume too. Who has time to buy a scale and weigh it out? Steelmesh, is there any chance your cap may have been off for some time or the methanol mix was exposed to open air? Methanol will take on water and evaporate some of the alcohol if it is.

Honestly if you have room to store a 55 gallon drum somewhere it is the cheapest and most easily controllable way to mix your water methanol. Last I saw you could pick one up for about $180. 10 times cheaper than the heet method and still cheaper than paying to ship jugs half full of water or in your case mostly water lol.

ECaulk

iTrader: (6)

You can mix by weight off volume, it's just using the density of the liquid times the volume.

If your just mixing 1 gallon of methanol and 1 gallon of water you don't get 2 gallons of mix, so it's not 50% by volume. If you're using tables produced by chemists for the freezing point you have to consider that. Look at the freezing point tables for wt%. 100% methanol is 6.6 lbs/gal, water is 8.3 lbs/gal. For those Canadians that are interested methanol is 0.79 kg / L and water is 1.0 kg/ L.

jdbaugh1

iTrader: (1)

I just fill slightly over half the gallon bottle with methanol and and fill the other half up with water. I am putting no more than 1/2 a gallon water in because I split a gallon jug of distilled water between 2 containers. So this should get me pretty close. Doesn't really matter if it's 50:50 exactly as my car is tuned for this mixture and it should be fairly consistent unless I mix at temperature extremes.

steelmesh

I called a few places in Detroit trying to find VP methanol, I think I will continue my search after this. Sharkey is right, and my new saying lately is "the only way you know it's done right or wrong is if you do it yourself". By wrong I mean doing stuf half-assed, but at least you know it's half assed.

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

no need to have a barrel of alcohol around, i mix mine with methyl hydrate, its the same thing. costs me around $16 for 2 gallons. ive got a 10l jerry can, 2 gallons of methyl hydrate, and fill to the top with water (its more than 10l total) gives me a 70/30 mix. with my old meth kit (devils own stage 1 with a pressure switch) i used to burn through that in around a month to a month and a half. with my new progressive aem kit im running i havent even gone through a gallon since i put the kit in over a month ago.

Slowbalt2000

iTrader: (1)

well thats junk. Washer fluid is better than that

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

have you by chance posted this on their own forum?

steelmesh

Not yet. I am currently trying to understand testing methods and would like to test a new sealed gallon of Devilsown Brew I have left (I do have another gallon, but it was opened). I also have other methanol mixtures to test/compare like washer fluids, boost juice, heet. I am trying to understand how to DIY measure methanol content, I acquired an alcohol calibrated refractometer, but looks like the refractive index is different between grain alcohol and wood alcohol (meth) so I am still researching this. I can measure density at home, but would prefer at least a second test method to increase confidence. Burning the mixture test will be tested.

After I figure this out I will have no excuses like "I don't know how to test for methanol content", and with a video on youtubes you all won't have excuses either!

Snail_SS

iTrader: (3)

In because I will be running meth sometime in the future

steelmesh

I was trying to communicate with devilsown via some email address that ends with @alcohol-injection.com, no one was replying. I found another email to a different server days later, forwarded this original email and someone replied. They want me to send the unsealed jug back to them so they can check it out.

I have decided not to send it to them and go ahead with testing this product independently and sharing it with the world; after a year or two the monetized youtube video should cover the defective product.

Since I am going to unseal the jug, Devilsown says they won't support the warranty claim. I do understand customers can be dishonest and commit fraud against businesses everyday, but I am me and I am not a dirtbag with 1000% confidence, with that I do question if I am wrong and filled the methanol tank with water over the summer, so that is why I want to double confirm if I am an idiot or not by testing the unsealed jug myself.

jdbaugh1

iTrader: (1)

**** happens and sometimes we can be our own worst enemy. I've washed out and converted some jugs that had pressure washing concentrate in them to mix and store water/methanol as they are gallon jugs just like the devilsown or boost juice. One day when I was refilling on a dark early morning I caught myself pouring straight pressure washing concentrate into my water/methanol reservoir in my car. If I would have been day dreaming more I may not have even noticed but luckily I did and drained the system.

I work in customer service as part of my job when customers have issues with our product. I have learned you ALWAYS have to be skeptical of what the customer tells you because even the most honest customers will sometimes make assumptions and feed you incorrect information without even meaning to. I don't assume they are lying but I always have to assume what they are telling me could be incorrect or fudged in a way. The only way we can rule something out is to test it ourselves. I have spent months chasing my tail trying to diagnose problems because of false information reported to me by customers. In this aspect I can't really fault Devilsown for wanting to test the product themselves. I honestly don't think they would mix it light on purpose consistently though something could have easily went wrong during the filling process to a batch of mix that nobody caught. I would think the risks would not be worth the extra money in their pocket to mix the product light. For one thing it is too easily testable. The other thing is it will hinder the performance of their injection system.

steelmesh

FYI, Livernois Motorsports stocks VP Racing Methanol 5-gal jugs. I'll pick some up to be sure I am using pure methanol as a confident baseline. I also picked up a hydrometer, 0.700 - 1.000 specific gravity, where 1.000 is water and methanol is about 0.792, @ 20C.

I got the hydrometer because I did a quick test last night with the refractometer. 40% Vodka reads exactly 40% alcohol on this meter, but Boost Juice reads "18% alcohol", however that is impossible because I lit a sample of Boost Juice on fire again last night (remember, Devilsown had failed this acid test). Also, the refractive indices are different between ethanol and methanol, so I confirmed reality here. However, since I am going to get pure meth I can rescale the hydrometer manually by testing known ratios of methanol in distilled water.

My little experiment will now have 3.5 testing methods. Mass/Volume, Specific Gravity, Refractive Index, and the 0.5 test is just setting it on fire, but that is a go no-go type of test for higher concentrations of methanol. I could put it in a box, then measure temperature rise to measure energy output and back estimate the amount of methanol the burned off. Haha, no.

exninja

iTrader: (1)

You mean, you don't have a bomb calorimeter at home? What kind of amateur chemist are you? lol jk

07blackg5

iTrader: (8)

equal volume is 44% meth, so I just run that.

jdbaugh1

iTrader: (1)

Close enough to be an insignificant difference IMO. As long as your tune is calibrated for a certain mixture and you keep your mixtures consistent, it's not worth losing sleep over. Good enough for the girls I run with anyway.

steelmesh

Setting the Stage:



Still waiting on the hydrometer in the mail.

I may as well record the test plan somewhere, I am trying to balance efficiency with effectiveness here in a diy context:

1) Calculate density based on mass/volume (gram scale + graduated cylinder)

2) Hydrometer test to measure specific gravity

3) Characterization of meth/water ratio vs. refractometer reading (to rescale because refractometer is for Ethanol)

4) Refractometer test [using the new scale for methanol]

5) Acid test: is it flammable?

6) Acid test: test tube all specimens, place in freezer for X hrs, see what happens

I'd also like to concoct the Blue Washer Fluid + Heet and see what we get (notable internet suggested formula). I was just at walmart last night and browsed by, you can acquire this combo for about $4.

ECaulk

iTrader: (6)

Specific gravity is density for liquids fyi.

steelmesh

Correct, I am learning / re-learning some of this science stuff, it is interesting personally so I got myself sucked in atm. I am trying out easily accessible methods to estimate or determine or confirm meth/water ratio. For anyone who is on the edge of detonation and is tuned to a certain % meth, they will appreciate this (I hope for the engine's sake).

For folks reading, the hydrometer is a bob weight with some type of metal shot as ballast, then a scale to measure how far this bob sinks. The more it sinks the less dense the fluid.

ECaulk

iTrader: (6)

Look at your graduated cylinder and look for a capital A or B, and for TC or TD. If it does not have a A or B, the accuracy is not the best. Class A (capital A) is the most accurate by ASTM E1272, Class B is next and unlabeled is unknown. To check the accuracy use water, 1g of relatively clean water (bottled or distilled) takes 1mL at 20-25C (room temp). The TC or TD indicates if the scale is for To Contain or To Deliver.

The density method is likely the easiest, I'll look in some of my standards books and see if I can find a methanol/water ratio density chart. Otherwise I could build one relatively quick at work (I'm a Chemist/Engineer) as I have access to reagent grade versions of both.

steelmesh

Yay a Chemist!! I will check that TD TC out, I was wondering about this as I was trying to get the last drops to drop when pouring from the cylinder, thinking how imprecise that was. I did an initial test with distilled water, 15 mL added to a test tube, the import graduated cylinder I used was for 10 mL. I do have a 50 mL cylinder, but figured the smaller one has better resolution. I tared the scale and measured 14g. Could be the operator messing it up too. I have weight standards (including 15g), the scale is spot on. That was enough for me to consider the hydrometer as the next best alternative, but would like to see the empirical test results to confirm this.