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FYI - Devilsown Brew methanol frozen solid, 0-25% content

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FYI - Devilsown Brew methanol frozen solid, 0-25% content

Old 01-18-2018, 06:19 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by steelmesh View Post
Yay a Chemist!! I will check that TD TC out, I was wondering about this as I was trying to get the last drops to drop when pouring from the cylinder, thinking how imprecise that was. I did an initial test with distilled water, 15 mL added to a test tube, the import graduated cylinder I used was for 10 mL. I do have a 50 mL cylinder, but figured the smaller one has better resolution. I tared the scale and measured 14g. Could be the operator messing it up too. I have weight standards (including 15g), the scale is spot on. That was enough for me to consider the hydrometer as the next best alternative, but would like to see the empirical test results to confirm this.
If you can tare the scale with one of the cylinders on there that's going to be the best. They're likely TC not TD, the TD cylinders open up more at the top generally. The hydrometer will likely be less accurate in the overall, but for single digit accuracy (0.X) it will work.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ECaulk View Post
If you can tare the scale with one of the cylinders on there that's going to be the best. They're likely TC not TD, the TD cylinders open up more at the top generally. The hydrometer will likely be less accurate in the overall, but for single digit accuracy (0.X) it will work.
I have completed the testing. I used distilled water to help determine an offset or help train me how 100ml is perceived on the import graduated cylinder. I did this by filling it with 100g of H20, then I calibrated my eyeballs so to speak. This was at 20C +/-1C.

As you already said, the mass measurement method will be more accurate than a hydrometer for density. I agree it's less accurate but it still does work, and it was much worse since I didn't have a proper container to measure with the hydrometer so it kept sticking to the side, however for a split second I could help neutralize the hydrometer enough to get a general reading. I could have used a bigger container (larger diameter), but required too large of a sample size to fill it up so the hydrometer doesn't touch bottom. Since I did 17 samples, I wanted to try and be consistent with the test method so I stuck with the less optimal container for the hydrometer test.

An interesting detail I learned is with the Ethanol scaled Refractometer readings, where the Density and SG took on a linear relationship, the Refractometer readings took on a Parabolic relationship!! Mind blown, and explains why googling "Methanol Refractometer" yields nothing significant. The Apex of the parabola is 50/50 mixture of H20 and Methanol, so for example 20% Meth and 80% Meth content yield nearly the same Ethanol Refractometer reading.

I will tell you, Snow Performance and Devilsown are ripping us off*. Even if we say there is a +/- 5% error in my measurements, Boost Juice is the same thing as [-20F Blue Washer fluid + Yellow Bottle Heet]. Devilsown is closer to being distilled water than it is to being regular Blue Washer Fluid.


*based on this empirical testing

For the detailed results of this testing and how I tested it, stay tuned for a link to the video (still post-processing it).
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Old 01-22-2018, 03:02 PM
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i like to say im surprised, but im not. i mean, you had the results of the devils brew before you started testing, it was frozen at 10*f.

i do look forward to seeing your full results.
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharkey View Post
i like to say im surprised, but im not. i mean, you had the results of the devils brew before you started testing, it was frozen at 10*f.

i do look forward to seeing your full results.
Boost Juice is not right either =(
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:46 PM
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does boost juice claim a certain content?
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ECaulk View Post
does boost juice claim a certain content?

"...proprietary mix of 49% methanol and 51% distilled water"


Snow Performance as of 2018-Jan-22:



Devilsown as of 2018-Jan-22:

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Old 01-23-2018, 09:08 AM
  #32  
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I'm really surprised they would do this intentionally. Methanol isn't that expensive for one and it is also fairly easy for someone to test content. This could lead to detonation if someone was tuned for a proper 50:50 mixtures and they throw this stuff in being mostly water. Also, like you had, it can freeze in the system. I don't understand why they would sell an incorrectly proportioned product which when used would hinder performance of or potentially damage the injection system they sell.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jdbaugh1 View Post
I'm really surprised they would do this intentionally. Methanol isn't that expensive for one and it is also fairly easy for someone to test content. This could lead to detonation if someone was tuned for a proper 50:50 mixtures and they throw this stuff in being mostly water. Also, like you had, it can freeze in the system. I don't understand why they would sell an incorrectly proportioned product which when used would hinder performance of or potentially damage the injection system they sell.
Let spin this around, how can the vendor let this happen when testing methanol content is so easy? I am not sure how they mix the solution, but if they are doing it in large batches (275 gal tote) then they are in the best position to monitor quality.

It is mind blowing, both companies failed. I totally expected Boost Juice to be the hero.

I cant speak for small companies like Devilsown and Snow Performance, but for sure at the many gigantic companies I've worked at, it comes down to lack of accountability and the "not my problem" mentality.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:41 PM
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What density measurements were you getting?

Here is a blend table relating to density
http://www.methanol.org/wp-content/u...ater-Mixes.pdf
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:18 PM
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if devils own was doing things properly every jug would have a batch number on it, and every batch should have all the info on the mix recorded so they have it on record. on top of it they should keep a jug from every batch for a time period so if any problems arise they can retest it without having to have a customer ship it back to them.

im gonna go out on a limb here though. a drum of methanol is around $500, although im sure they are able to buy it cheaper buying in quantity, we will just go with $500.

$500 in product + filtered tap water at 50/50 mix gives you roughly 110 gallons of saleable product, at $28 a jug. $2250 profit.

now if you drop that down to 25% mix, you get $5660 profit off that one drum of methanol.

just food for thought
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharkey View Post
if devils own was doing things properly every jug would have a batch number on it, and every batch should have all the info on the mix recorded so they have it on record. on top of it they should keep a jug from every batch for a time period so if any problems arise they can retest it without having to have a customer ship it back to them.

im gonna go out on a limb here though. a drum of methanol is around $500, although im sure they are able to buy it cheaper buying in quantity, we will just go with $500.

$500 in product + filtered tap water at 50/50 mix gives you roughly 110 gallons of saleable product, at $28 a jug. $2250 profit.

now if you drop that down to 25% mix, you get $5660 profit off that one drum of methanol.

just food for thought
$500 is likely a decent price, given a ACS grade 55 gallon drum is about $675 on VWR and they tend to be a bit pricer for their reagents and I'm sure the companies are not using ACS grade methanol (purity standard) they are likely using a lower grade that has more metals or other salts in there.
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:22 PM
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They mix with filtered tap water? I mix mine with distilled and just assumed they would for impurities.
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:50 PM
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i dont know if that they do mix with tap water, however it would make the mix cheaper than distilled water. for the record, i mix my water/meth with tap water, and in 7 years ive never had one issue.

$500 was a price i found looking at vp fuel m1 methanol.
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jdbaugh1 View Post
They mix with filtered tap water? I mix mine with distilled and just assumed they would for impurities.
Filtered tap can give you similar results as distillation for less energy.
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharkey View Post
i dont know if that they do mix with tap water, however it would make the mix cheaper than distilled water. for the record, i mix my water/meth with tap water, and in 7 years ive never had one issue.

$500 was a price i found looking at vp fuel m1 methanol.
Most tap water is good for that use. If you have extra hard water then use a filter (brita would even work).

So they def could get it cheaper buying larger quantities. The profit margin on it is insane for them.
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharkey View Post
i dont know if that they do mix with tap water, however it would make the mix cheaper than distilled water. for the record, i mix my water/meth with tap water, and in 7 years ive never had one issue.

$500 was a price i found looking at vp fuel m1 methanol.
I'm sure tap is fine. I just use distilled because I know it won't leave anything behind and it's not that expensive no more than I use. I also use distilled when I refill radiators. Again no more than I do it I figure I'll spend the extra $0.50 or whatever it is a gallon more for pure water.
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