avenger09123

Today was my first time doing autoX out in primm, nevada. pretty good stuff, I got put in GS class, general stock, so I was running my 07 LS 2.2 manual model with the rims and tires and a CAI. I had to go against an 08 Mitsu Lancer and a mitsu galant with an 04' eclipse motor. Actually by the end of the day I got my car under control and I needed a passenger to keep it from sliding around, but dude, I got first place! beat the lancer by .13 seconds... sweet if you ask me.....dude wider tires and a 140lb passenger....that kicked asssssssssssssssss......

Oh yeah, I was the only cobalt out there....gottaaaa represent

to put this in perspective...the best car out there was a lotus...running 45 seconds.... my best was 56 seconds.......not bad for a cobalt haha

greekss

nice....good job....how much fun was it? i'm considering doin the same

alleycat58

Just to let you know, I'm assuming they go by SCCA rules (I'm guessing you were since Primm is where Vegas region runs), you were in the wrong class. If one of your competitors wanted to, they could protest you and your runs would be disqualified. GS doesn't mean "general stock".....it's just a performance distinction. They class all the cars from fastest (AS) to slowest (HS) so that they can adjust the PAX time and give a true relation between performance.

If you're running under SCCA rules, you should be running in STS. But then again if they're letting a Galant run in GS with a motor swap (HUGE nono for stock, even if the motor and car both are), unless the two cars share that motor from the factory..........they're either classing noobs or they just don't care.

avenger09123

It was great man, but I had to keep someone in my car to keep the right side down when I went, otherwise the weight we too even and it made me spin out a lot.
And I do suggest you get the upgraded steering knuckles to make sure they don't break, I did 10 runs this weekend, but I prolly won't do it again until I get the right parts for it.

as for alleycat 58 - yeah your right, but their car lists were incomplete for us so a lot of times they had to stick us in somewhere. The kid with the galant was not forthcoming with his motorswap upon registry, and upon furthur looking into it...I think sts class was pulling 52 or 50 second runs at best, which means I'm even happier, I have put no where near the money these people have into their cars (either in cost or upgrades) and it only puts me 6 seconds behind the best of them with less braking ability and no AWD.

alleycat58

They should have complete car lists, as the 2008 rule book is out already.

As for time, you can't look at raw time and get a "car x is faster than car y" feel, you have to look at what they call the PAX time. That's why there are different classes. They index your raw time into what they feel is a roughly universal time. i.e. You have a 45 second run and a Vette has a 45 second run. You will have the faster PAX time because the Vette has a performance and handling advantage. Better example - because of my mods I run my SS/SC in CSP (C-Street Prepared)....a buddy of mine runs his SS/SC in D-stock. I can be a second and a half faster than him, but he would beat me in PAX time (which is the only time that actually counts).

As you improve, so will your times. It's a lot of fun.

BTW, I noticed another mistake they made on your registration. Even if you WERE stock, you should be in H-stock rather than G-stock. DS = SS/SC, GS = SS, HS = 2.2s.

Not that it makes any difference when you're a casual racer just out there having fun, but if you ever decide to really get into it, you'll need to know where you should be class-wise. Cause as you can see........relying on the people at registration isn't always the best and if you end up in the wrong class, even through no fault of your own, a competitor can protest you and all of your runs will be thrown out.

Fallen33

Dude hit me up next time you go, I had no idea they had racing out at Primm. Let alone a road course.

SoloZ/SS

Allright I don't get it, this was your first time and your suggesting to other people that they should upgrade their knuckles before they even try it? I am not trying to sound like a mean old autocrosser(I'm not really) but you don't need those knuckles, I have been doing this for a while and haven't had any troubles with the car. That is with two seasons on the car with a bunch of autocrosses and a couple time trials.

avenger09123

For sure dude.....SpeedRacer lives about 200ft from me he had to work otherwise his SS ass would have been coming with me.

Ok perhaps I should clear that up. I was talking with a veteran here at work, he said that when your extending your turn all the way right or left is where you risk breaking your knuckles if you bounce and land on your wheels not in the same direction as your car's momentum is heading.....fine for normal autox, but if your doing a track there might be a chance to fly.....besides check the autox sticky up at the top talks about it.

As for our historically weak axles, he said the most chance your car has of snapping an axle is if its spinning while the wheel is rotated as far one way or another as possible, and all of a sudden grabs the ground, thats where you run the risk of snapping your axles......

So kudos to you if you haven't broken yours dude, other people have though, its a suggested one for everyone, its obviously expensive, $300 a piece for the knuckles and $1200 for the axles. But if you want to run as little risk as possible with our cars, these are the "SUGGESTED" upgrades you do to make it solid. Besides, I'd rather have GM put these on and have a lower risk of voiding my warranty from abuse than not have them and have to pay for replacements and/or installation.

Otherwise than that dude....rock on man, you gonna go to primm with us in march?????

alleycat58

Dude, I'd HIGHLY recommend the knuckles. I know I won't be running again until I get them. I now know three people personally, plus about 5 more on here who have had steering knuckle failure WITHOUT hard driving (no auto-x, no road racing, not even people who take the turns "spiritedly") resulting in VERY serious and VERY expensive accidents. I didn't really think they were needed, I've done a few seasons of auto-x and 5 or 6 track days as well but tax money will be putting those on my car this year. I've seen first hand what a steering knuckle failure will do on an easy turn at 25........I'm not willing to find out what it will do at an auto-x or on the track.

That's the one spot I'll disagree on. I have NEVER in 10 years of racing seen someone snap an axle at an auto-x or road race. The place where you are MOST likely to snap an axle is at the drag strip during a hard launch WAY WAY WAY higher torque load hitting the axle with the sudden traction there. You'll see 100+ snapped axels at a drag strip before you see a single one at an auto-x. There's no need for a drag strip launch unless you're at a pro solo event. That's why the local events give you a bit of a space to get rolling before timing starts - to avoid a stressful launch.

avenger09123

alrighty so PAX results came out......
I ranked 67 out of 81...not really that good....but heres the cars that were at the top 10......
06 Lotus Elise
89 Civic Si
06 Stanley Steamer
06 RX-8
05 RX-8
86 Corvette Coupe
99 BMW M3
06 Ford Mustang GT
02 CRG Heron Plus
98 Camara Z28


thats an idea of most of the cars there
Here's me 7.351 from 1st place after PAX calculated

I beat:
06 Subaru WRX STi
03 Mitsu Evo
06 Pont Solstice
08 Mitsu Lancer
85 Toyota Corolla GTS
06 Mitsu Evo 9 GSR
03 Mitsu Galant Blue
91 Mazda Miata
97 BMW Z3
03 Porsche 996 C2
97 BMW Z3
02 Lincoln LS
07 BMW 335i
02 Acura TL.



ok I did the calculations with the pax....
the lotus ran a 45.752 - with pax he ran a 38.980
I ran a 56.848 - with a pax time I ran a 46.331

Now according to what I've read, PAX time is what matters, its supposed to balance out the general idea of the best track time possible based on car class and give a fair standing of times.....
in order for me to have competed with the lotus for first place, I would have to run a 47.828 pre PAX to tie his 38.980 post PAX time......
So let me get this straight....in order for me to score the same post-PAX as a lotus I have to run 2 seconds slower than the lotus (ss class) in my (G stock class) so his best time as a 45 means I have to run a 47 based on my PAX factor.........If he did that as his best time....how the **** am I supposed to be only 2 seconds behind him with a stock car with an insanely lower amount of handling and acceleration? that PAX is bullshit dude...pure bullshit.....there is no way I could have done that....nor anyone else in my class....Only 6 cars ran sub 47.8 seconds that day....so your telling me I had to beat one of the top 6 track times that day to tie the lotus after PAX calculations? thats bullshit dude.....I don't understand where the **** they get these "factors"

Still it was a blast....i'll do it again for sure...but if its that biased....screw joining.....the more money you have in your car means the more you win.....not how good of a driver you are.....

alleycat58

Dude, calm down. It's your first time. First of all, you're not *technically* in G-stock. Part of the problem you'll find is that the PAX for the stock classes, it is legal to run auto-x slicks, AKA R-compound tires. You were on street tires. BOOM there's at least 2 seconds better on your time. Also, the 2.2 even in stock form does not go into G-stock, it goes into H-stock. The PAX index for H-stock would have put you closer to the Lotus. In reality, you should have been placed into STS because of your intake, which is based off of cars running on street tires only - no slicks allowed - BUT the downfall is they allow more modifications to the car suspension wise.

In a year, you'll drop around 4 seconds off your time, give or take, just from experience. I have seen people on a 45-47 second course (based on FTD, obviously since no two courses are EVER the same) knock 8 seconds off their time without modifying a thing on their car.

Here's my advice: Don't go out wanting to be competitive. You won't be in your first year. Get your feet wet, have fun, and watch people. The best thing you can do for yourself is to ask to ride along with some of the more experienced drivers. You'll learn what you're doing wrong by seeing how it should be done right. For the time being, race against yourself. Lay down your first time, then set a goal for yourself and think about where you want to pick up time. THAT's usually how you improve. Also.....if you're afraid to hit cones, you won't get any better. I know SO many people that go out with the goal of not hitting any cones and they never can figure out why their times aren't that hot.

avenger09123

nah dude I'm calm, when I start using verbage doesn't mean I'm upset, just my way of expressing myself.....the magic number sucks...and I checked on what you said for H stock....
I would still have to be close to his time to match his....oh well chalk one up for the n00b...it was still fun

alleycat58

You'll get better. Just dont' get discouraged. I don't even know HOW I made my times better, but I went from the bottom of the PAX list to the middle in about 10 events. I didn't really consciously change anything.....I just got more experienced.

SoloZ/SS

I think most new people have this red mist where they wanna go fast and don't look ahead or think ahead. The Pax is there to help more or less stock class car a chance at overall, I still don't like pax except last year in my underfilled regional class where with pax I was in the top 5 at most events in my stock SS/SC, after putting springs and adjusting a few things and moving up a class and getting a slightly tougher Pax I was still able to be in the top 5 the course length may have helped aswell. With seat time you will learn more and more of your car and your own ability, when I first started I went to allmost all of the events put on by different clubs and had a very open mind that was about 8 years ago now.

About the knuckles I guess it is just driving style, I would never at an autocross or on track go full lock carrying any speed and I still can't understand why anyone would crank the steering wheel while there in the air. If I ever had a course like that I would change how I enter the section maybe try using the center pedal. It is all about looking ahead even on the road, and if you've tried to take a corner fast you know most cars understeer so a good idea is to brake before the corner. Anyways good luck in your future events and try to keep it fun for the first couple years after that then you can get annoyed when your getting beaten lol I know I still do once in a while but then it's usually by a friend in a totally different class.

conemark

For your reading pleasure, the 2008 SCCA Solo ruleset:

http://www.scca.com/documents/Solo%2...lo_Rules_2.pdf