yea thats true. **** ME. i want a diff gear in this thing. HPtuners can re calibrate the speed odometer right. ?

 

Sub'd for sure!

 

Same company that makes PPG gears for the subies?

If so, it'll be a pretty penny, as far as I know PPG gears for the subie are in excess of 4k.

 

older gm muncie 4 speeds got the nickname "rock crusher" as they were hard to shift and always grinded when shifting, 1st gear wasnt syncronized, but they were a very strong tranny. the reason older transmission and race transmission whine a lot is because they use whats called spur cut gears. the teeth are cut 90 degrees from the side of the gear going straight accross it, opposed to what most transmissions use, helical cut gears. the teeth on the gears are curved.

a dog box, or crash box is another thing altogether. a crash box can be built from any tranny. what you do is grind every other tooth of the sleeve and gear, and if you want a real fast shift, grind the teeth off the syncro making the syncro do nothing, just be there to fill the gap. this will allow you to shift without the clutch. when you shift, all you do is put some pressure on the shifter, let off the gas a bit and itll shift. this really isnt recomended for a street car as it does add a lot of slop to the drivetrain (you will get clunks and bumps on and off the gas). also this does make the tranny weaker.

the best option for strength in our transmissions would be the quaife 6 speed conversion. its supposed to be 30% stronger.

 

i don't make gears.Everything however can be made but one off gears are silly money, ( i do have access to an expert gear maker with all the machines, so i can always consult with him, but these M35 diff gears are helical, and the pinion is a machined part of the mainshaft which is a mucho dinero long multi machined exacto part. BUT a straight cut diff gear is possible. its all possible. A group buy? Forget it do you cruise this forum much?

Like this M35 transmission is not like anything you have seen before in rwd apps.

i can supply 4.05 and 4.45 ratios, and maybe the 3.7 or whatever LNF diff gear ratio but there is not an unlimited supply and it will get harder, with GM's woes.

Jimbo is an autobahn hound, so he dont care about no frickin 1/4 mile stuff.

I'm a road racer so 4.45 suits me but i haven't taken the plunge yet as i like the fuel economy and the 145 mph...as long as i am dreaming i would put in a 6 speed quaife i just love that idea BUT it all costs money.

Ralli is a stubborn no prisoners sort of guy so he will come up with something for sure, but that Hewland would look good in my car! How much is 12 thousand British pounds in real money anyway?

 

Dog bones, Dog teeth, Ive always ever only heard them called DOG RING engagement/gear

You could in theory replace just 1-2 if you wanted so long as you didnt make the gears any wider or change their helix(tooth angle) But this would be a waste because all you be doing is getting rid of the synchros.

ONE major benefit of a dog ring engagement setup is that since you dont need a full synchro pack(just a sleeve with dogs on it) you can take the room saved by removing the synchro parts and make the gears wider, this is what increases the power handling of a dog ring box so much, wider gears.

Yu would also typically change the helix on the tooth, a straighter tooth(no curve) is much stronger, but its noisier, can be harder to engage, and they have a tendency to pop out of gear in certain conditions because they dont have the engineered helix of the gear mesh holding it in place. So drag transmission usually have a single cut dogs, so they are less likely to pop out of gear(and still have the extra strength of the larger dog surface), BUT single sided (ofen called back cut) dogs are a royal pain in the ass to downshift because there no ramp to help you slide into gear, you MUST rev much and double declutch to downshift or you grind.

Road race dog ring boxes will almost always be double cut(double back cut, or an angle on both leading and trailing edge of dog) Thi slightly reduces the strength of the dog(tab that engages gear) but it allows much easier downshifts.

1-2 are easy if you dont change gear design (only engagement) 3rd is part of the input shaft, so youll need a completely redesigned shaft. 4th has only the same caveats as 1-2.

So essentially, in order to do a 1-2-3 dog ring conversion, youd need the drive and driven gears for FIRST and SECOND gears, youd need a new input shaft, a new THIRD driven gear and of course either the new or converted synchronizer sleeves(I didnt go to website, I dont know if they offer "snap-in" dog ring assemblies for the stock synchro sleeves or if they make new bespoke sleeves with integral dogs.) This the minimum parts count in my mind.

I cant imagine this being cheaper than the Quaife 6spd conversion(so$4000usd at LEAST is my guess)

Its over $20,000USD for those boxes new, plus a bellhousing(which Ive been quoted anywhere between $3500-5000USD for a minimum run of 3) then of couse youve got axles, mounts, engine relocation and a shift mechanism. I figured it out over a year ago and it was abot $30k without labor costs.

We should buy two.

 

Just as a price comparison, Quaife's dog engagement gear kit for the F25 is over $5,000. Thats 6 speed, but comparable as far as gear and shaft sizes, even the F16/18/20's are all right around Five Large.


And lastly why are you dealing with PPG half way round the world in Australia, when it would probably be easier to call up RSG in NY, or call the guys over at EMCO (IL/NC/IN)

 

he he yuou are right. And Emco and Rockland Standard Gear are great people do fine work but no money in this Cobalt stuff for them, look at the quaife 6 speed. I really really want one but there are at least 3500 reasons why not....Ralli is dreaming, give him credit, but he is banned so lots of dream time....

 

Banned? I missed that.

 

+rep to you, also to add, most reverse gears in a trans are spur cut so in reverse you can hear the gear accelerate as the car itself is accelerating.

 

subscribed

 

Why? you have $5000+ to rebuild your tranny with one of a kind gears?

 

exit stage right

 

was that directed towards me?

 

Yeah, sorry. I was having a rough night and was in a punchy mood.

 

lol no problem man, just wanted to know where the 5K i had was lol

 

subscribed, I want to know if these guys develop anything cause I would drop whatever to get a stronger tranny. Now, who said that the 6 speed kit was 30% stronger? Proof?

 

something i noticed is they allready make gearsets for the opel corsa/ holden barina, those are most likely either the f35 or f23 transmissions. they may allready make a gearset for us or at least the 2.2L or 2.4L guys. just a thought.

 

no point since the guy who started this thread had a little fit one day and said he was leaving the site... unless someone else calls the company

 

good call i went down that path and cannot determine if the Corsa Barina has an F35 trans or not but my strongest suspicion is not, it is a different platform...the best place for alternate ratios would be SAAB as thats where the M35 came from in the first place; if folks here choke on 250 bucks for a set of eibach lowering springs, what are they going to do on a MINIMUM 5 thousand dollar bill for some straight cut gears with dog ring engagement? THe after market transmission i have fitted in Z06 (sequential straight cut close ratio, dog ring Hollinger) is 25 thousand dollars in Austriali plus freight, (you know that story!) plus adaptors, installation, wiring for shift light etc.

Ralliartist had a great idea lots of enthusiam, anything can happen but the cost is WAY beyond anyone. LOok how many folks have $3500 Quaife 6 speed conversions in their Cobalts? Do you know of anyone? IN fact, with an LNF axle ratio, the 6 speed would be good for you Jimbo, rushing down the autobahn...

 

thats what i'm looking for is a stronger gearset that has closer gears but a different final drive, the quaife conversion with the saab or lnf final drive would be perfect for me provided it holds up to the longterm abuses i plan to put it under. nuremburgring/autobahn

i know the opel corsa is also a delta platform(might not actually be a delta, but the setup is nearly identical) car slightly smaller than the astra, i have spent some time looking over them at the dealerships when trying to find a car for the wifey. they all have ecotec motors, and fwd trannys. not much different than the cobalt. the main differences that i noted were the displacement is usally a 1.4 L unless you get the opc version which is a 1.8l turbolader same block as the 2.0/2.2 smaller bore and stroke. even some of the newer saab 9-3's are using the 1.8l over here.

 

Yes Quaife makes gearsets for virtually every transaxle GM uses(in Europe) They dont "stock" any for the F23 though. None of the transmissions Quaife supports (F13/15/16/18/20/25/28/35.....) will swap internals with the F23. Besides the F25/35 none of the transmissions they support will bolt directly into the Cobalt.

Something else that complicates matters if you really start diggin is that the F35 used to be called the F25.....When this trans was first used in the USA by Saturn in 2003(I think) it was still called the Saab F25, as far as I know the case is the same as the 04 IRL cases(meaning you need to drill out speed sensor hole for CSS use) and the same gearset/internal, the differences lies in that this transmission is not cable shifted like in the IRL/CSS. It uses a rod type shifting mechanism(i know lots of guys wouldve preferred that )
I just dont want anybody to see that there are gearsets for the F25, and find out that the F25 came on ECO's and just assume it was a stronger F23, its not...F25=F35.

The only other transmission I know for sure that is available with an ECOTEC clutch housing pattern and is stronger than F23 or F35 is the F40. The F40 is a six speed manual. It was used by the Saab 9-3, and was optional in Canada(US Saabs had the F35)
The F40 is a slightly bigger trans(it also weighs almost 25lbs more), so custom mounts would most likely need to be made(not sure) and theres also the possibility that axles would be needed. The big issue here, besides the custom install, and the fact that these boxes are rare(ish) is that it suffers from the same gearing issues as the F35, that is a quite low first gear(its only 2.3% taller ) and a huge gear spacing from 1st-2nd(48% change on F35, 46% on F40)

 

Make that worse gear issues.
1-2-3 is like shifting through a box of rocks.

 

yes it is..agreeing with Omega there's a first .so the bottom line here is :"interesting thread, going nowhere". Too much money. Jimbo, get a Quaife 6 speed conversion , put it in an LNF trans with micro polished gears, install LNF axles, hub assemblies and front brakes. Spend probably 5-7k. It will be very nice... or sell and buy LNF? trade and what 5 k just sayin'

 

The Opel Corsa may be a smaller version of the new "global" Delta, but its not what we call Delta, nor is it related. The Cobalt is essnetially an updated version of Europes MKIV Astra(Astra G), and it isnt sold as we know it anywhere else in the world except in North America.

The 1.4/1.6/1.8 "ECOTECS" (often called twin ports)that are used in the rest of the world, ARE NOT related in any notable way to what we call ECO's. You cant swap any parts between the two, and they dont have the same bellhousing pattern.. The Saturn Astra uses the 1.8L ECO. The Saturn Astra is for all intents and purposes the exact same car sold in Europe as the Vauxhall and Opel Astra. None of the OPC/VXR products use an ECO as we know it.