brandon2.2

I am practically rebuilding my whole car. Hopefully 300hp at the wheels. New brakes wheels/tires, suspension and more. I am replacing the whole drivetrain including the axles.

It is an '06 LS 2.2L. I am going to buy the F35 transmission from CrateEngineDepot with the limited slip differential. I have found a lot of info on the F35 trans and this is really my only option. I will be using new transmission and motor mounts.

I need help coming up with exactly what I'll need. the trans and LSD from crateenginedepot. A whole new clutch, but which one would you all recommend for a 300hp daily driver? I have seen so many I just need some input. I saw in the post "Clutch" a lot of guys like the Exedy.

what all will I need for the tranny swap? new flywheel? clutch kit from...., a short throw shifter, axles?

Help is very much appreciated. This project is so large I have to do a lot of research and find a lot of stuff.

RuSSo-29

I didn't know the F35 could swap over to the L61...?

brandon2.2

I was certain all the ecotecs are so similar that the tranny's ought to bolt up to any of the engines...i sure hope i'm right.

06black

thats allot of money to toss out there on an assumption.

double check.

brandon2.2

yea you're right. I am in the research phase right now and trying to come up with a whole parts list. I will start the build around august 2008.

I am going to call or email Crate Engine Depot to find out, hopefully they'll know.

Crate Engine Depot says that they do not know. They have not done it before and wished me luck with it...lol

can the stock LS 5spd handle as much as the F#%? and what are the ratios?? I may just have to work with it. what is the final drive of the stock set-up?

brandon2.2

help on the stock LS tranny?? how much have people put infront of that tranny?? where can I find the ratios?? I found a LSD on TTR for it.

Blue_Balt

iTrader: (1)

Ratios

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getrag_F23_transmission

Chevy rates it to 170lb-ft of torque but there are people that are running much more than that on it.

F35 definitely won't fit up.

More info about all trans that chevy use

http://www.gminsidenews.com/index.php?page=trans_guide

scroll down for the manual transmissions.

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

the f23 will hold some power. there are j-body guys putting in exess of 400hp through them. azles may be an issue for you though.

the f35 should bolt up with the spacer plate, however the clutch is the issue. the flywheel on an lsj is 8 bolt, and the flywheel and clutch is completly different.

brandon2.2

MAN I knew I'd run into some problems. I guess I'll have to use the stocker F23. Does anyone know what I can do to BEEF it up?

in one way it makes my build cheaper, because I can't buy the F35, but man that sucks.

so there is an adapter plate I can buy? but there's another problem with the flywheel......

I'll see what I can do with the stock F23 I guess.

by the way thank you guys very much for your help I appreciate it. SO far this site has given me a lot of good info.

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

the f23 is a tough tranny. its conservitivly rated. im currently building a 400hp 2.2l thats backed with an f23, and i have no concerns about the tranny holding up (this is swapped into a 90 sunbird). i beleive it was the hahn sunfire, 550hp and 200 drag strip passes and the stock tranny was holding up fine.

brandon2.2

ok after doing a little more research, I found that the Saturn Vue uses the same tranny (behind the L61) but with a different RPO code MG3, the cobalts being the M86. The MG3 from the Vue was built for the heavier Vue.

The M86 is rated for a GVWR of 4,094 lbs and the MG3 is rated for a GVWR of 4,475 lbs.

I found some on Ebay used. I am going to look more into this. after that I will just buy a better clutch.

another thing to think about.....I am keeping my car light (2600), I am only buying 7" wide wheels/tires, I wont be bringing it to the strip, so I wont be real hard on the tranny.

really good traction and a lot of power (and heavy vehicle) is whats hard on transmissions.

sorry Sharkey I think you posted while I was, that is some really good info. thanks.

I found the ratios on wikipedia, but what is the final drive ratio(on the cobalt)?? the tranny from the Vue I found says "4.41 ratio", I wonder if they mean the final drive ratio? That is a pretty low gear.

and I can't find the ratios for the F35, I am just curious.

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

the only difference between the vue f23 and cobalt is the 4.41fdr. there is no other differences making it stronger. ive had both the vue and cavalier f23 apart and they are identical inside.

the f35 ratios

3.38
1.76
1.18
0.89
0.70
4.05 fdr

http://www.fastfieros.com/NEW_manual...ion_ratios.htm i use that site for ratios.

brandon2.2

ok I see. It has a lower FDR because its used for heavier vehicles. now that makes sense. and on wikipedia it says 5th gear between the M86 and MG3 are different (confirmed with that site you said you use)

MG3 5th - 0.81
M86 5th - 0.69

I'm not real good with understanding gear ratios, why is it a higher number for the Vue than the Cobalt in 5th? which is better for performance or better for gas mileage?

HackAbuse

Higher gear ratio is better for performance and lower is better for mileage

brandon2.2

ok thanks, I sort of understood it then. I think I might want to go with the tranny from the VUE, I believe that should make for better acceleration as it should keep me in the power-band better with the 4.41 ratio, I answered my questions with that link to the site with ratios.

Going 80 on the interstate the RPM might be pretty high though. For a daily driver that might suck. at 80 my car right now is around 3,000. What would it be with the 4.41 and a 5th of 0.81? at 6200rpm it's 133mph. and the stock tranny would be going 170mph at 6200rpm with a FDR of 3.94 and a 5th of 0.69

I just have some more questions.

when I initially started this thread, I said I am replacing the whole drivetrain. this is still almost ture.

I need help with opinions on the clutch/flywheel and axles. I know a lot of this is preference but I have some Q's.

I think I want the SPEC stage 2+ and a better flywheel maybe a Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel. now that axles from TTR say they are for the SS, will they work for my LS 2.2??? I sure hope so.

I am also definitely going to be buying the Quaife LSD.

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

the build im doing is getting a fidenza flywheel and spec stage 3+. was going for a 2+, but got the same price on a 3+, so thats what its getting. im not sure if the axle splines are the same between the f23 and f35. i know the f35 has equal length axles and a transfer shaft with steady bearing on the passenger side. if the splines are the same im sure you could use the steady shaft and dss axles.

brandon2.2

cool thanks. I will just have to research about the axles.

R&C_rallySS

I already have stage II drive shop axles in my SS/SC. They were about 800 bucks. I also have a stage III Exedy clutch and flywheel. Stage II with all the supporting mods. Check out my thread in the classifieds. A real good deal if your looking to upgrade. 9k miles, fully loaded with G85, Recaro seats, mods. and Garage kept, never seen winter. Pretty much asking Blue book for it =D. 2006 SS/SC rally yellow with CF center wing. Check it out.

Cobalt4Life

brandon are you going turbo?? i take it you are if your looking at 300hp.. if so i got a spreadsheet i designed for my build of my 2.2

just incase i will paste it here for you


Engine Modifications

Diamond/wiseco 9.5:1 Forged Pistons
Eagle Forged Rods
Cometic Multi layer steel head gasket
ARP Head Stud Kit

Forced Induction

Hahn Stage 2 Turbo kit

Exhaust Modifications

Hahn 3inch Catback
ZZP 3inch Stainless Downpipe/Highflow cat

Drivetrain

TurboTechRacing Transmission Race Mounts
TurboTechRacing Solid Engine Mount
B&M Supercooler Transmission cooler

Gauges/Pods

Autometer 3 Gauge Pillar Pod
Autometer Cobalt series Boost
Autometer Cobalt series Oil Pressure
Autometer Cobalt series Transmission Temperature
Autometer Cobalt series Wideband Sensor
Cobalt-Addiction Seering Column Pod

Fuel Management

N/A

brandon2.2

thanks. That list goes along mostly with mine. I will be using 8.9:1 pistons though.

and yes for over 300hp I will be using the Garrett turbo kit.

brandon2.2

so do you guys kmow if I swap the VUE tranny for mine, on the highway at like 75 in 5th what RPM will I be at??? I looked at the VUE on Vehix and they list it as being a 5spd manual with overdrive.
FDR is 4.41 and 5th is like.81

Cobalt4Life

why 8.9:1 pistons?? everyone i talked about with those says while not under boost the car runns sluggish.. i want to be in the medium, but to each there own

the tranny ur asking i have no clue about. i no right at 70 miles per hour the car shifts into 3rd

brandon2.2

ok, I was wondering about that. I says to myself "self, your car wont move until the turbo kicks in and you hit the power-band"

I will have a lot of supporting mods such as cams and a machined head, so it will still move better than it does now when the turbo is not creating a lot of boost at low RPM's.

but I was originally going with the 9.5:1, I know those wont work with the 2.2L rods, so I guess I would just have to buy pistons and rods (forged) that are for the 2.0L LSJ. then that should work. But I will look more into the compression ratio.

the other thing is, with a low compression ratio like that, and not real good power at low rpm's, should be easier on my axles and tranny.

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

with a 2.0l and under 9:1 compression you will have no torque. in a 2.2l with the long stroke crank it wont be as bad as you have some torque. the motor im building, its got 8.9:1 pistons, however im going to CC the engine and determine what the compression actualy is. just cause the pistons say 8.9 doesnt mean they are. cometic also makes 2 different thickness head gaskets, so depending on what the compression ends up at i can adjust to were i want by changing head gasket thickness. im hoping to get around 9.2:1.

Cobalt4Life

they have 2.2 rods brandon.. the eagle rods for our car and some diamond or wiseco pistons for our car to..