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Best Water / Meth injection components and where to inject
I'm not interested in a kit since I have many of the items and tools already that go to waste in a kit so I am mainly interested in who supplies the best pumps, nozzles and tanks. I can handle the rest unless there are some good progressive controllers available.
If you have had bad experiences with some components, let me know which to stay clear of. Still not sure where I want to inject. The only negative I have read, even from the suppliers is the meth can slowly remove the rotor coating if injecting in front of the supercharger which I think would be ideal in lowering IAT2 temps, supercharger temps and complete atomization.
So far I have seen good looking parts at ProMeth and Snow Performance. I have added a pole to gather opinions on where to inject. Before the SC or after the SC
So below are pictures ive taken over the years of my setup. I have since sold the car and it is still performing without issue. I installed around 50k miles and the car is currently at 120 something K miles.
I ran Snow Performance and ran windshield washer fluid 50/50 mix as recommended by the owner of Snow himself. Said he would love to sell me their version of "Boost Juice" but it was expensive and even more expensive to ship. So for every gallon of washer fluid i would also add three bottles of YELLOW HEET water evap to the tank which I had mounted in the back trunk. I think it was 2.5 gallons. Ran the line out of the trunk and along the bottom of the car. Drilled the intake pre throttle body and it sprayed on boost reference from 10 lbs up. Owned the car for 4 years after installing the water/meth setup and went through two M62 blowers both of which had zero rotor delamination of the coating. Installed a TVS which was on the car a year before the car was sold and we had it off once also and there was no issues with the coating. The lower intake manifold, inside of the intake, and throttle body were blue. No operating issues aside from once my Throttle body needed to be cleaned out because it was sticking. Cleaned it and never had an issue again. Cannot confirm if it was related or not. We had an LED light that would turn on when the pump was running to let me know it was on. Mounted that inside by the wideband gauge on the pillar. Tuned the car a little richer up top incase the pump ever failed. It never did and to this day I speak to the owner occasionally who is also on here and he has not noted any issues. Spraying pre blower helped keep the blower cool on smaller pulleys when I had the m62. The TVS I had a 2.8.
in our shop we have seen a lot of different water/meth systems with various results. here are my experiences with a few of them
-devils own stage 1- this is a system based off a pressure switch boost trigger. i had this on my own car for a number of years. it worked ok but i always found it was way too much meth lower in the rpm range, as its an all or nothing system. it also would suck back the meth real fast. i had issues with system response, it would always seem to lag a slight bit after a gear change, resulting in knock. on the dyno my car would peak at 270 ft/lb on a 4th gear pull, however on a 2-3-4 gear pull it would get knock on the gear change requiring us to limit timing, and i lost 10 ft/lb before the car was happy. the devils own nozzles are ok, although i went through several check valves.
-snow performance- dealt with a few on customer cars, one turbo one supercharged that i can remember. no issues with any of the parts, but had similar issues to my devils own on a supercharged s2000, the car would knock after a gear change and pull timing. it would also periodically just not turn on.
aem- this is the only kit my shop installs now. literally put hundreds of these in cars without a single failure. the feature i really like with them is they run the pump at a low duty cycle all the time, this keeps the system primed and gives a fast response when it turns the pump on. on the above mentioned s2000 it solved the knock issues altogether. on my own car i havent had it back on the dyno since installing my aem kit, however street tuning ive been able to add significant timing through the peak torque area with no knock retard on gear changes.
controller type is a big consideration. sure a pressure switch works, but like mentioned above its on or off. one issue i had was because we needed the meth spraying quick we set the turn on point low, around 3psi, however that allowed the meth to spray under medium throttle outside power enrichment, causing the fuel trims to freak out, as well as sucking back meth when not needed. a progressive pressure based controller is much the same way on a supercharged car, it will just spray less at the lower boost. i do find a pressure based progressive controller works well on a turbo car, especially with a speed density based ecm. i run an aem boost referenced kit on my ecotec 944
now on my cobalt i ended up with an aem progressive kit with the multi input controller, it allows for input from a map sensor, mass air flow or injector duty cycle. i went with injector duty cycle control as i didnt want the meth spraying outside power enrichment, and i found there was some overlap in the maf frequency when comparing wide open throttle low rpm to higher rpm out of boost/not in power enrichment. looking at my data logs i found at no point would the ecm go above 25% idc when not in power enrichment, but at any point it entered power enrichment it was over 28% idc. i have my start point set at 25% idc and full point at 75% idc, this allows the meth to be ramped in at the same rate as fuel. i can say after doing it this way on my car, i wouldnt do it any different on any blower car.
now as for mixing parts from different kits, you can do it but be careful. most pumps dont have a matching flow vs input voltage, so some controllers are built with a voltage curve to make the pump flow as linear as possible. also some systems run at lower pressure, use a low pressure pump with a high pressure nozzle and you wont get proper atomization.
Good comparisons Sharkey...... I definitely want a progressive controller and one that can follow either air flow or IDC would be accurate. Thanks for taking the time!
I used to inject at the throttle body but my supercharger case bearings had all the grease washed away prematurely and almost lead to a complete failure. Now I inject between the supercharger and intake manifold utilizing ZZP's 1/2" spacer. One thing with the 1/2" spacer is you have to consider how to compensated drive belt length. I will never inject pre-supercharger again. I don't see any disadvantages from injecting post supercharger.
The best place to inject performance wise would of course be on the back side of the laminova cores though there isn't much space for mounting nozzles and I had concerns about equal mixing to all cylinders though I don't know if it would be a problem or not.
I am running the Devils-own DVC-30 kit with the progressive controller with two 3 gph nozzles injecting 50:50 with the progressive spray starting at basically any positive pressure (to help prevent tip-in knock) and full spray over 10 psi. I am also running AEM water/meth failsafe gauge that shows the flow while I inject and will also trip a boost limiter solenoid when the measured flow doesn't fall within a specified range compared to the percentage demanded from the pump.
I can't comment on the AEM kit as I have never ran it but the devils-own progressive controller has worked flawlessly for me so far for a consistent spray volume.
04-07-2018, 07:05 PM
