I have been reading posts for about 2 hours around the net and there are still a few unclear things... first of all... i have done a few turbo kits on other cars... Most noted would be a 96 civic and 06 civic SI... i just bought a cobalt about a month ago and it has like 10K more miles on warranty... as soon as that runs out i was wanted to start moding it (it paid for so if all else fails i can sell it) It is base 06' LS 2.2L... i have learned that they have plastic intake manifold and a pain ECU/ECM or whatever because there is no reflash available... also FMU will not work because there is no return line for the fuel...right? Now, the manifold porblem isnt that big of a deal because ALL ecotec engine have the same bold pattern so a turbo manifold isnt out of the question.. and SAAB maks one for one of their cars...also.. cracked intake manifold must be replaced... again... saab makes swappable ones... right? or just aftermarket ones for an ecotec would work right?.... Anyway, my main concern is the ECU/ECM problem.. i see that there is a somewhat noted piggyback system available... cool... but what is the whole 5th injector thing... in the 96 honda we could run about 5psi with stock injectors... ??? so will the piggy back systm increase fuel pressure??? or add bigger injectors and increse pressure??? I believe everything else i can figure out... the saab turbo manifolds are setup for a mitsubishi turbo... like 14b or 14g right? intercooler and BOV ( if wanted) and oil lines are not too hard to find... for turbo setups are people tapping their oil pans or using "sandwich" plates to route oil??? so.. basically.. my questions are....
5th injector????
piggy back and how it really works???
intake and exhaust manifold?? any ecotec???cavalier or sunfire????
oil lines????how are they ran???

thanks guys... i have tried to search this site for turbo 2.2's and most of the things are just talking about it... anyway... if any one has a 2.2 COBALT turbo PM me... thanks in advance for any info.. thanks....

 

Ok, I'll give this my best shot. Answered parts in bold:
No return rail is correct. Rising rate fpr won't work.
A guy welds a log style eco turbo exhaust manifold and sells them on ebay for a decent price, its a decent piece.
Intake manifold will hold the pressure, the issue someone had here was fuel puddling in the intake manifold due to a 5th aux fuel injector.
The PCM thing is kind of a pain. The biggest issues that can all be solved by a perfect power SMT6 but has a steep learning curve are: Ability to alter incoming GM style MAF sensor (with a clamped MAP as well to keep the electronic throttle working), O2 sensor volatge clamp (for initial fuel enrichment), piggyback compatible with the stock 'camout' or crank position signal. If you could find a way to get an emanage to read a GM MAF and output it back, it would be really easy, but any translators won't output the MAF signal from the piggyback to the stock PCM back to a variable frequency instead of a variable voltage. There is a popular translator made for DSMs that allow a GM MAF to be used and translate the signal to a variable voltage but don't translate it back for the stock PCM.
The 5th injector is there to supplement the stock injectors without having to alter MAF/MAP sensors to a great degree. The further they are altered, the higher the chance the PCM fails necessary self checks on the electronic throttle.

 

I cant give you an answer but i would go look at some of the turbo kits for the 2.2 and see what they come with. May be that will answer a couple questions. Good luck!

 

5th injector: A process where the extra fuel required by a forced induction setup is provided by installing an extra fuel injector somewhere in the induction. It is controlled by a separate computer. The stock computer continues to operate the stock injectors without change.

piggyback: A computer that is placed in-between the stock computer and the rest of the car. It modifies the signals sent to the stock computer in order to trick the computer into giving the users desired results

exhaust manifolds are a function of your turbo

stock intake manifold is fine to levels around 10 psi as long as you are not sending fuel through it. Metal manifolds are available from Saab (as you mentioned), GMPP, Hahn Race Craft, and Venom. Yes, they are all the same size.

Oil supply is tapped from any number of galley plugs that are all over the Ecotec block. That's the easy part. The return requires that hole be drilled. On a manual trans car, you can use a cast-in dimple provided on the lower crankcase. On an automatic, you can't reach that spot. So you have to drill into the oil pan. Either way, you have to take the oil pan off in order to clean up your drill shavings.

 

****, Witt beat me to it.

To answer the other questions...

The saab manifold is a cast manifold that uses a Mitsubishi TD04 turbocharger with a Triangular flange.

Honestly, I would stay away from a 5th injector setup. With a dry manifold, fuel puddling is a great possibility which could lead to other disasterous outcomes.

Piggyback systems don't increase fuel pressure, that is what a fuel pressure regulator is for or in your case, your fuel pump. A piggyback will alter the MAF signal to make your computer think you're more so in one condition than another to either supply or take away fuel as wanted.

In my opinion, stay away from the stock Saab parts. For the power you're aiming for and for upgradability, I'd stick with aftermarket. The TD04 turbocharger is a small turbocharger and you're not going to be creating a great amount of airflow.

You should not be worried about your intake manifold. There have been PLENTY of people to turbocharge their 2.2 (L61) and never had this issue.

Bypass or Blow Off Valves should NOT be a option. You need one if you want your turbocharger to work properly. Compressor surges can cause severe damage to the turbocharger.

For oil feed locations, read this: http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3162

 

When using a piggyback with a cobalt ecotec, remember GM MAF's output a variable frequency while most others output a 0-5v variable voltage, in case the OP didn't pick that up in my original post. Thats the biggest problem imo is to keep a decent signal to the stock PCM.

 

I know you're dead sexy. I would have told you that if you signed on AIM ******!

oh yeah...what witt said lol

 

Where do they even sell the SMT6 WITHOUT the alpine kit? I have seen no distributors yet, neither shops or online stores, maybe im just not looking hard enough?

 

Not looking hard enough

http://www.perfectpower.com/dealer_c...ealer_list.asp

 

I would check this out. It has all the features the SMT-6 does to my car but may be easier to install. it only supports 2 extra injectors tho, so changing out your small injectors and having it tune your 4 injectors would be outta the question. but it may also be cheaper. IT also has a boost controller built in, with some sick features.

http://www.perfectpower.com/products...rboFueller.asp

 

yea.. thanks guys... i think i got this all figured out.. there was a guy locally welding and selling manifolds... he's good buddy of mine... and i can buy the flanges and peices cheaper then what they want on ebay... anyway... the only thing i am not too sure about it the 5th injector thing... i get the tho whole concept... and i see where it could be bad!!! i just wanted to know how one would be installed?... i mean.. i have never had to do this before so how do you add a fuel injector to a manifold?... i dont know.. and the other thing is that someone posted that the perfect power is being used on his turbo setup and he tuned his injecotrs?... is this right?.. .by using the perfect power piggy back smt6 i can increase flow from stock injecotrs? or upgrade injecotrs and increase their flow?... i want to stay away from the 5th injecotr thing... if anyone has anything else to say let me know.. i would like to have this done by next spring... ( i dont want to do it this summer because i just got the car and would like it to last at least 6 months... lol) thanks guys

 

the 5th injector is mounted above the tb, check out the pic on my myspace
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...mageID=6827416

 

Im most likely going to have 42lb'ers in my car running off the smt6 here in the next 2-4 weeks. im currently getting the saab manifold in and putting that on(this week). once i get that on, im going to re-tune my car. the week after that, my cars going to be getting its new clutch, pistons and rods. i will then up the boost and fine tune again. Once thats done, im going put in 4 larger injectors.

 

If i read this right... and i tries to read through the topic of your turbo but it was like 25 pages long.. anyways... you are now using stock injecotrs to spray fuel?.... and they are just wired to the piggy back and it increases flow??? and you can run about 8psi?... let me know how it is wired up... i would like to make this my new project near the end of summer... thanks...

also... for those that have a turbo... how did you run intercooler pipe and is it a tight fit?... what size pipe did you use? and where does the sensor fit at? thanks guys... hopefully within the next 6 months or so (i know its kinda a long time) i'll be boosted!!!!

 

Hey, y'all, get a room!

25 pages is more than your ADD can support? Hmmm...

The piggy-back mentioned can be used to fire additional injector(s) or change the characteristics of the stock injector pulse width.

By the way, Corky Bell, in his book Maximum Boost doesn't recommend messing with fuel pressure or O2 sensor readings to get additional fuel flow. The former isn't practical with a non-return fuel system like the Cobalt, anyway. The O2 sensor only has control of a small percentage of enrichment (something like 8%) so isn't practical for large boost/flow. He's also not fond of a single additional injector, but seems to like one additional injector per cylinder placed close to where the originals are. In fact, he doesn't seem to like any solution - this is one area where he says ECMs are much better than the old carburetted engines, but doesn't offer definitive, straight-forward solutions.

Yes, intercooler piping is a bit of a problem to get from behind the engine to the front of the car. Garrett goes over the engine for some of it, Alpine comes around and over the tranny. The trouble with the Alpine solution (and Hahn's one-off installation) is that they won't clear an auto since the tranny is larger.

As for pipe size, etc., it's easier to buy the Garrett tuner kit for the parts than working this out for yourself.

Actually, the tightest fit seems to be the turbo itself ends up practically against the firewall on both the currently available kits. From pics it seems to me the Alpine has a bit more clearance than the Garrett.

If by "sensor" you mean the MAF, it goes between the air cleaner and the turbo inlet. Anywhere is fine, but if you mount it in a bend in the pipe it gives wacko readings, so stick to a straight section.

 

On my setup, i am currently running the 5th injector. i will tune for 15psi with the 5th injector, then go to 4 individual injectors. The MAF on my setup is seperate and runs off of a vacuum line attached to a nipple on the manifold. Whatever you wanna call that port you would normally put a boost gauge. Thats how it reads boost on my application.

 

The MAF is separate, or the MAP? I understand that the piggy-back uses a separate MAP.

By 4 individual injectors, do you mean 4 larger injectors in the stock location, or 4 additional injectors for a total of 8?

 

running 4 injectors off the smt-6. Replacing the stock injectors with larger ones.

On my previous post, i ment MAP. I was working at the time, give me a break =P

 

With me, it's bad wiring between brain and keyboard, not work

Sounds like a good idea. John was telling me the smt-6 will do that, but I'm not sure they've done it with an Ecotec.

 

Gee another thing it looks like ill be the first to do. oh well =P im gonna throw some 60's in there. that should supply enough fuel for 300-320whp.

 

my piggy back is freakin out, dumping tons of fuel during the cranking.....flooding the **** out of my car

 

Are you doing the extra injector setup or controlling your 4 injectors? What size injectors do you have?

 

how much of power are you guys producing with the turbo setup ?

 

its my 5th injector, its 60lb an hour, filled up the manifold and piping with fuel again.... at my car right now, tear it back apart tomarrow to clean it out

around 215-220whp

 

I think you either have:

1. A faulty MAP sensor
2. A leaking Fuel Injector

Because your 5th injector shouldn't spray until you're in boost pressure. If it is spraying when you're hitting boost pressure, then your tune is off and you're spraying way too much fuel.

What are your a/f ratios?

Honestly, I think you should take that setup out. Go with controlling the 4 injectors. Your manifold wasn't designed to distribute air AND fuel, it's a dry manifold. If you had a TBI or a Carb, that would be a different story.

Right now, you're probably spraying too much fuel hoping that all your cylinders will be getting a semi-equal amount of fuel being distributed. Fuel distribution in this case might also be a issue if you keep this up. For all you know, you could be running a fine a/f ratio from a Wideband but in reality, one cylinder or 2 cylinders could be getting overly rich and the others are being deprived (leaning out) which could cause detonation in atleast 1 cylinder which will result in a rebuild.

Atleast if you did it the regular piggyback way, you'll be able to control all 4 equaly. That was the main advantage of EFI systems over Carbs in the first place.