anyone producing more the 215-220 whp ?

wanna see if it worth getting a turbo setup or just leaving the car how it is

 

Is that not enough for you? lol. Its quite a bit of power, but my goals are 300-350whp. Im at about the same as slowbalt but have a 3inch exhaust and different intake manifold. The setup can get you to ~300whp with internals. you cant expect any more then 215-225whp on our internals, you gotta think logically.



If anyone can tell me how to setup my stock injector harness so that the stock computer thinks its still hooked up, let me know. I will then put 60's in, attach to the SMT-6 and tune from scratch.

EDIT: I read somewhere on here that if you put a 14ohm resistor in the circuit for each injector, the stock computer will think its still there. That worth trying?

 

Alpine's 5th injector is a proven design. It's working fine on Sw4y1313's car, which was the prototype for converting the 2.2 Ion kit to the Cobalt. The SMT-6 should be injecting fuel through the 5th injector only when it's on boost. Also, it doesn't just open the injector, it controls the pulse width based on manifold pressure. Sw4y1313 is working on a tune using the SMT-6 to control larger injectors in the stock location, with no 5th injector. That might be a better set-up.

I do agree that it might be a faulty secondary MAP sensor (the SMT-6 has its own MAP). The SMT-6 would then think it's seeing boost all the time and try to adjust by adding fuel through the 5th injector. Since the car ran OK in Colorado and on the trip home, then started to act up, it's bound to be something that changed, like a sensor gone bad, a wiring issue, the SMT-6 has gone stupid, or something like that.

And the main advantage of EFI over carbs is more precision in fuel delivery. The GM throttle body injection system was a wet manifold design, and it worked flawlessly (and much better than a carb or pair of carbs, in the case of the 'vette cross-fire system). With digital control, you can program fuel and spark 3-dimensionally rather than 2 with analog.

 

i found one f the pins in the 5th injector harness had back out, it is the wire that runs to the stock injector......it took 5 hours and 4 new plugs to get the car running....ran like ass for 20 min, does it take awhile for the ecu to relearn? it gets better the longer i let it run, i will try to drive it 2marrow

 

Well what sway is doing I think that's how they should have sold them in the first place.

The only thing I'm worried about is fuel distribution between all 4 of the cylinders. I'm afraid that some cylinders are going to get deprived and others won't and it will constantly change. Even with a wideband, you can never really tell how much fuel each cylinder is getting compared to all the cylinders, you can only assume.

Well the computer shouldn't be learning anything since the 5th injector is a independant unit.

Did you drive the car for 20 minutes or let it idle?

 

i let it idle for about 20 min, i reset the ecu as john told me to, and when we did a evo motor swap into a eclipse it took that car about 30 min to recope its self, then an hour of driving, then all was well. so is the "relearning" of the ecu normal after you reset it?

 

I understand what you're saying but what I'm saying is that you did nothing that really requires your computer to relearn something. If you changed your fuel injectors...changed camshafts...something that is referencing back to your computer in some form, then yeah, maybe something like that might force it to re-learn but a extra injector setup is seperate from your computer and sensors.

 

John thought it might help as the manifold was almost full of gas. He said it couldnt hurt....since the sensors saw so much fuel and the fact the plugs were so carbonized that they would no longer arc. So i droped in new plugs and it started right up, ran shitty for about 15 min, then started to run normal, i will try and drive it easy, anything that i need to watch out for?

 

Sw4y1313 wat type of internals are we talking about cause if its just an exhaust the intake manifold and maybe something else then no problem but if your talking about like cams this and that and all this other crap then NO, i want something like 350hp

 

guess it didnt learn, just went to start it and it acted they same

 

Well for one, the turbocharger that you're getting with the kit wasn't necessarily designed for the 350 HP you're aiming for. Also, your engine internals aren't going to either make it or be as reliable if you're aiming for that with your engine. You WILL eventually need to change that.

Internals are typically referring to the bottom end of the engine (pistons, rods and even the crankshaft).

If you're not prepared to do any type of engine work, than don't do this. There are always the possibility of engine failure when you're boosting a non-factory boosted vehicle.

Try disconnecting the 5th injector unit and see how it idles.

 

your never going to get 350hp out of the 2.2 without replacing pistons/rods. What im doing right now is just pistons/rods/clutch and kicking up to 15psi. im then going to get it tuned then do 4 60lb injectors and turn my fuel system into a return-fuel system so what NJHK said wont happen with cylinder 4. I dont want to blow my new pistons. After that i will be getting turbo cams and tuning for that.

Anyone know if turbo cams are worth $500+ bux. Im hoping if my turbo cant get me to ~320hp, cams can help get me there.

 

Not to get off topic too far from you guys but i my original post when I mentioned that an o2 voltage clamp is required on an ecotec piggyback it isnt for fuel enrichment purposes in that sense. The stock pcm has a PE delayed entry in which if boost is made the pcm will try to maintain a stoich mixture for a while before it will enter pe. if you add fuel during this period the pcm will just subtract the amount you add. By clamping the o2 sensor voltage during PE the stock pcm doesnt know that you are actually richer than stoich which is necessary for an aftermarket f/i car as soon as you enter boost. Different piggybacks have different names for this feature (emanage calls it o2 feedback) so trying to find a piggyback that supports this necessary feature can be a pain.

 

Just three quick questions. Do any of you 2.2 turbo guys use your cars as daily drivers? and if so how do they behave? How much does the average turbo set up cost?

 

my car is a daily driver, it plays nicely and i got a discount on my set up
the 5th injector is being gay, it is dumping fuel when i am cranking the car, so i just unplug the injector harness, start car, plug in, drive away.

 

Yeah, car is awesome for daily driving, now ill give you an update next week when im pushin 15psi. it still should be a blast. i go WOT every time i drive. my smile hasnt left my face since i left denver. I also got a killer deal on my stuff so yeah. its worth every penny tho let me tell you.

 

well guys.. it seems that this isnt the right time to get a turbo kit... does anyone know for sure if anyone will offer complete tunes by next year??? spring of next year? i guess i should just wait before i get into this... originally i wanted to boost the car just becasue i had extra turbo peices sitting around (BOV, Wastegate, intercooler, boost guage, pipe and oil lines, maybe some other things).... but the cobalt ecm doesnt seem to like boost as well as some of the other cars i've worked with do... the piggy back system sounds good.. i dont like the 5th injector because of the pooling of fuel... if any one hears anything about tuning updates or whatever.. let me know...

 

You can use an SMT-6 to control the stock injectors and add fuel through them (up to the point where they are running 100 percent duty cycle). If you want to make big power, you'll have to go to the Saab cast aluminum manifold to hold the boost anyway, so it would be relatively easy to add an additional boss for an injector behind the current boss at each cyliner runner and add 4 additional injectors and a second fuel rail (and probably a separate pump to feed it). The SMT-6 would then be easy to program to run the additional injectors. This means the additional fuel is being injected near the intake port so there is no fuel passing by the throttle body. another approach, but I'd have to see the manifold out of the car to know if this would work, is to add the additional bosses on the bottom of the manifold right below the current ones. This is usually cleaner/easier (and they're relatively hidden).

 

ok.. so i just checked back to this post and see that lewiSS posted that the smt-6 can be programmed to run stock injectors.. that sounds like a good clean way to do this... i have been researching turbo cobalts and it seems that there are few and far between... the 5th injector is outo f the questions for me.. and i don't want to run anything over 5psi or so of boost... it's not a race car it's a daily drive.. i just want it to be relaiable and i have a 5psi spring and wastegate laying around... but for some reason i cant justify adding any piggy back system to the car... it seems as though that doing so... even without adding 5th injecotr is still just asking for trouble... i dont know.. i turbo cobalt would be a first where i am at... but i just dont think i want to risk it...

 

Piggybacks are excellent at what they do. They are designed specifically for applications such as these unlike the stock computer.

 

Oh by the way, there was no puddling in the intake manifold from the 5th injector. My wastegate actuator hose came off and i was pushing 20psi at 3k rpms. thats what blew the manifold apart.

 

You know, you could put a relay on that wire (I can check the color on mine) so it won't energize until after the car is running.

We were shooting for 5-6 with mine and hit 8, but the engine is reasonably happy. I'm truing to sort a plug misfire now (it needs a colder plug gapped closer, about .035). The 5th injector is, IMHO, the best way to go for ease of tuning. If Celicacobalt and crew get HPTune to run the stock computer under boost, and can reliably add fuel and subtract ignition, then it's a different ballgame altogether. I'm trying to decide if I want to back off the boost a bit and give up a bit of the top-end power for reliability (and, maybe it would stop the random misfire).

My car is a daily driver, 47 miles one way to work every day. So far (and we're not fully tuned) it's a blast to drive. The low-and-midrange torque is great - less than half throttle is putting out about the performance I had at WOT, probably more based on the ferocity of the shifts.

Check Alpine's web site for pricing:

http://www.alpine-developments.us/

 

I believe the fuel enters on your rail closer to cylinder 4, so it would be the opposite...cylinder 1 if my theory is correct.

There is still some ideas that people are coming up with in order either convert or maintain a good fuel pressure in the fuel rail.

 

Chrysler on the 2.2 Turbo II cured this with a larger fuel rail (bigger tube).