Twin Charged?
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From: Salem, Oregon
Twin Charged?
Ok so I've been trying to find a answer in the forums and am lost. There's all this hype about the new SS/TC and it does look pretty sweet. I also saw someone had a twin charged system where they had the stock supercharger and a turbo charger on that. Is this possible, and if it is how do you do it because I was one of those ones who was thinking of maybe trading in for the new one until i saw that. And if that is possible I think that would be better to do that than trading in. Any info on the twin charged system helps. Thanks!
Ok so I've been trying to find a answer in the forums and am lost. There's all this hype about the new SS/TC and it does look pretty sweet. I also saw someone had a twin charged system where they had the stock supercharger and a turbo charger on that. Is this possible, and if it is how do you do it because I was one of those ones who was thinking of maybe trading in for the new one until i saw that. And if that is possible I think that would be better to do that than trading in. Any info on the twin charged system helps. Thanks!
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/featured-car-showcase-74/february-07-featured-car-winner-badg1rl-46320/
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From: Fayett-Evil NC
Yes tuning is a pain in the ass for twincharged....now the VW twincharged cars are computer controlled meaning that once one has drop a valve is either opened or closed and the charge are is bypassed by the other....the charge air from the turbo bypassed the supercharger...complex engineering....traditional twincharge (turbo charge air going into the supercharger and further compressed) tuning would mean you would have to tune with supercharger, then tune for turbo w/o supercharger vice versa, then tune for both...time consuming and very hectic assuming you can get it right....which is hard enough
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Yes tuning is a pain in the ass for twincharged....now the VW twincharged cars are computer controlled meaning that once one has drop a valve is either opened or closed and the charge are is bypassed by the other....the charge air from the turbo bypassed the supercharger...complex engineering....traditional twincharge (turbo charge air going into the supercharger and further compressed) tuning would mean you would have to tune with supercharger, then tune for turbo w/o supercharger vice versa, then tune for both...time consuming and very hectic assuming you can get it right....which is hard enough
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From: Sasebo Japan
Yes tuning is a pain in the ass for twincharged....now the VW twincharged cars are computer controlled meaning that once one has drop a valve is either opened or closed and the charge are is bypassed by the other....the charge air from the turbo bypassed the supercharger...complex engineering....traditional twincharge (turbo charge air going into the supercharger and further compressed) tuning would mean you would have to tune with supercharger, then tune for turbo w/o supercharger vice versa, then tune for both...time consuming and very hectic assuming you can get it right....which is hard enough
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From: "Central", PA
^^what they all said. you have 2 diff. types of FI. They contradict each other too much. Superchargers do well with a little bit of backpressure... turbos -- not so much... so they operate too differently also. It's not worth the hassle. There's a reason Hahn abondoned the idea and focused on the Turbo conversion. That project is also the reason hahn is now behind in the aftermarket for our car. Even they couldn't figure it out.
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From: Sasebo Japan
^^what they all said. you have 2 diff. types of FI. They contradict each other too much. Superchargers do well with a little bit of backpressure... turbos -- not so much... so they operate too differently also. It's not worth the hassle. There's a reason Hahn abondoned the idea and focused on the Turbo conversion. That project is also the reason hahn is now behind in the aftermarket for our car. Even they couldn't figure it out.
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
^^what they all said. you have 2 diff. types of FI. They contradict each other too much. Superchargers do well with a little bit of backpressure... turbos -- not so much... so they operate too differently also. It's not worth the hassle. There's a reason Hahn abondoned the idea and focused on the Turbo conversion. That project is also the reason hahn is now behind in the aftermarket for our car. Even they couldn't figure it out.
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From: Sasebo Japan
tuning is NEVER a problem...are cars are supported with a good tuneing product..its up to YOU to do the research and trail and error to get ur car to run right...
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
I don't quite understand why everyone thinks this would be so hard to tune, I'm assuming its those who have never tuned EFI before claiming knowledge on the subject. Its no different than calibrating a maf, ve and spark for a turbo swap. Its nothing more than pressure and engine speed while using engine management sensors that work correctly.
Our PCMs allow for a wide range of tuning styles whether you want to run drawthrough or blowthrough MAF, speed density only, or both. I've seen cars run this setup with analog 0-5v MAFs and also just speed density and had no problems at all. Go to a local autocross event and chances are you'll see a Mini Cooper with this setup.
As Raven said, since compressors work in ratios over their incoming pressure its a matter of matching the right turbo map to the correct supercharger pulley. You have to keep high airflow and low pressure ratios while staying in each's efficiency range.
Our PCMs allow for a wide range of tuning styles whether you want to run drawthrough or blowthrough MAF, speed density only, or both. I've seen cars run this setup with analog 0-5v MAFs and also just speed density and had no problems at all. Go to a local autocross event and chances are you'll see a Mini Cooper with this setup.
As Raven said, since compressors work in ratios over their incoming pressure its a matter of matching the right turbo map to the correct supercharger pulley. You have to keep high airflow and low pressure ratios while staying in each's efficiency range.
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From: Sasebo Japan
I don't quite understand why everyone thinks this would be so hard to tune, I'm assuming its those who have never tuned EFI before claiming knowledge on the subject. Its no different than calibrating a maf, ve and spark for a turbo swap. Its nothing more than pressure and engine speed while using engine management sensors that work correctly.
Our PCMs allow for a wide range of tuning styles whether you want to run drawthrough or blowthrough MAF, speed density only, or both. I've seen cars run this setup with analog 0-5v MAFs and also just speed density and had no problems at all. Go to a local autocross event and chances are you'll see a Mini Cooper with this setup.
As Raven said, since compressors work in ratios over their incoming pressure its a matter of matching the right turbo map to the correct supercharger pulley. You have to keep high airflow and low pressure ratios while staying in each's efficiency range.
Our PCMs allow for a wide range of tuning styles whether you want to run drawthrough or blowthrough MAF, speed density only, or both. I've seen cars run this setup with analog 0-5v MAFs and also just speed density and had no problems at all. Go to a local autocross event and chances are you'll see a Mini Cooper with this setup.
As Raven said, since compressors work in ratios over their incoming pressure its a matter of matching the right turbo map to the correct supercharger pulley. You have to keep high airflow and low pressure ratios while staying in each's efficiency range.
point of the matter is...if u have the money and the knowledge or someone knowledgeable to tune u...ur good...
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
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From: Sasebo Japan
if ur talking about matching a turbo to our stock m62 than yea it could be a problem..and u can put the money somewhere else to make the same power..ur looking at maybe over 315 to the wheels...this could be the reason why hahn canceled the project...not worth it to buy that kit..but if u have the money to buy a nice sc and a well matched turbo...u can make some real power
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From: Cali
im not too knowledgeable about turbos and what not but the way i see it, it doesnt seem like its even worth it to put a turbo behind our stock s/c simply because of the fact that even if the turbo is shoving in so much air to the s/c, the s/c can only put out so much boost.. pretty much it seems like eliminating the s/c and putting a good turbo setup makes more sense.. its like grabbing a leafblower and trying to blow the air through a water hose... doesnt make sense to me
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From: Sasebo Japan
im not too knowledgeable about turbos and what not but the way i see it, it doesnt seem like its even worth it to put a turbo behind our stock s/c simply because of the fact that even if the turbo is shoving in so much air to the s/c, the s/c can only put out so much boost.. pretty much it seems like eliminating the s/c and putting a good turbo setup makes more sense.. its like grabbing a leafblower and trying to blow the air through a water hose... doesnt make sense to me
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Joined: 03-03-06
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
im not too knowledgeable about turbos and what not but the way i see it, it doesnt seem like its even worth it to put a turbo behind our stock s/c simply because of the fact that even if the turbo is shoving in so much air to the s/c, the s/c can only put out so much boost.. pretty much it seems like eliminating the s/c and putting a good turbo setup makes more sense.. its like grabbing a leafblower and trying to blow the air through a water hose... doesnt make sense to me
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From: Sasebo Japan
being worth it on a stock m62 no...but if i was building a say..honda civic..or mini coop like Witt pointed out...hell yea..starting off with something that is already FI with a s/c just doesnt seem to be a good set up because matching a turbo to a over spun s/c isnt going to work..but if it came stock turbo than thats a different story