DomCas

wow this isn't cool....at all.

averagewhiteboy

iTrader: (1)

Yes they were. They were certainly no 427, but any motor that can put a big ass car into the 6 second 0-60 range must not be too damn bad. They also used it in the Bonneville GXP and the XLR Corvette thing. Both of which I have driven. The XLR is certainly not as fast as the Corvette, but it does look damn nice.

If they made the Camaro a non-performer right away, bye bye GM. Honestly. There is so much hype over this car. To not make it in an SS now would be a critical mistake.

DoubleLP

Hmmmm....as bad as it seems with GM cutting out the performance division....in a way it does not surprise me. We all knew that GM was going to have to trim back their operations somehow, and this is unfortunately one of the casualties of this.

GM has to get back to basics and start all over again. "IF" GM comes out of this, you can bet that the performance division will be back...just not sure when and if that will ever happen. We will all just have to wait and see.

adrian3938

I loved the 96 SS , why? it was RWD and people even fixed em up to do track racing, but the sad part is they went from rwd to fwd after that what happened to all the impala ss enthusiast poof no more. I do agree with the l67 setup pretty cool but like the 07 with v8 to heavy to be a FWD in that case if you just want power they might as well have thrown a ls7 motor in there and there you have it frankestein. lol

Wild Balt

New Camaro is already on the assembly line making the pre-production models for engineers and GM staff. That SS isn't cancelled.

averagewhiteboy

iTrader: (1)

Hell, even my Dad's non-supercharged 3.8 Monte is only like .7 seconds slower 0-60 than the 80's Monte SS's. Those weren't that fast, but they were always one of my favorite cars. I want a black one someday. Regardless, GM is not what it used to be. Get used to it.

adrian3938

and if not even the charger srt-8 will out run the camaro i know because i have one lol

methodman2424

Been a few years.......so you were in the car market at age 9?

adrian3938

I agree you right, just sit tight and see if it changes lol

averagewhiteboy

iTrader: (1)

Those SRT-8's are ******* NASTY. Period. I love driving those. Hell, even the Cherokee SRT-8 is ******* sweet. haha

adrian3938

the only bad part about buying the srt models is that you pay alot , your mainly paying for the motor my srt-8 cam out to 48k and that hurt driving out of the dealer with it. it dropped like 8 grand after that lol

averagewhiteboy

iTrader: (1)

You gotta pay to play. lol.

adrian3938

Right about that, also it makes a good drifter car , suspension is a bit sluggish at time but heavy back end to swing around

SuperchargedSS

I feel bad for the engineers who went from working on performance cars and engines to designing weed eaters (volt).
The selfish part of me is happy I have white 09 tc fully loaded with low km under a blanket in my garage, the car enthusiast side of me just died.
Sad, but nothing is forever, they will be back.

Ford twin turbo Sho.... hmmmm the market just got bigger!

Blackout06LS

-sighs- Knew this was coming. I even seen the jump in prices already just for a base model Cobalt. :/

Guess I'll look into other companies.

SS4EVER

Outrun the V6 Camaro? Yes.

SS... no...

Wild Balt

Looking at weight, if its an auto SS, it may happen. But Chargers are still bastards. Look nothing like the classic one. At least the GTO had 2 doors. Dodge engineers picked the wrong name for that sedan.

As for the 6 speed SS, I don't think the Charger can do that stock for stock. Now the Challenger, which is the Camaro's competitor, is the one the magazines are trying to race.

RA040424

iTrader: (1)

I was talking about GM slapping SS on everything with wheels, supercharged or not.

Permafried-

Well I'm sure we all knew this was coming, and is one of the primary driving factors behind my purchase of the SS/TC now as opposed to holding off. This is going to become a trend for every manufacturer in the coming years as they try to cut costs and target the "average" consumer.

I'll agree with this in part, but GM, Ford and Chrysler did NOT bring this all on themselves, there's one significant group that also needs to be held accountable, that being the autoworkers union.

Now, I'm going to put on a flame suit since I'm sure there's a number of people on here that work for this group but before ripping me a new one please understand I am directing my anger at union leadership, NOT those who work under the union for the manufacturers themselves be it on the line, engineering, in administration, etc. If the government is going to sanction changes as a result of the bailout, they need to look at ALL the root causes which are as follows:

1. Wages of upper management are absolutely ludicrous...who in the hell needs to make 6.5 million per year when the company is already in financial trouble?
2. The Union leaders has pigeon holed the "big 3" for years and are finally starting to see the error of their ways. Too bad it has taken significant layoffs (which is completely unfair to those workers who were targeted) and a near market crash for the ******** in charge to wake up (or at least pull their heads out of the clouds for 30 seconds before going on their typical rampage).
3. Different brands with duplicate models resulting in over production and overstock. GM in NO way needs the Pontiac, Buick or Saturn brands as standalone entities when Chevy and GMC could carry the weight and act as an excellent brand for those models which ARE original from the above.

Sorry to say, but personally I feel if the government/GM/Ford/Chrysler do NOT address the ridiculous contracts in place with the union they will continue to lose out for years to come...the union leaders need a reality check. If I pulled half the bullshit they do at my job I'd be fired in a heartbeat which is the way it SHOULD be. Unions once served a valid purpose in the manufacturing sector, but with labour laws and the like in place today, they've become an abuse mechanism who have no interst for anyone but themselves (again I'm talking leadership here not those who simply belong to it and are spectators). Their largest concern right now should be the 80% pension their workers receive upon retirement which is going to land a crushing blow when the baby boomer generation completes their retirement (in other words the worst is yet to come) and they are paying millions of workers 80% of ~$35 per hour via their pension agreement in place with the union. This isn't going to work, and if something isn't done about it a bailout will simply delay the inevitable.

So far as branding, I see no reason to keep Pontiac, Saturn and Buick around since they contain a huge number of duplicate models with the primary (and most times sole) difference being the symbol on the god damned car. Perhaps someone at GM needs to read the book "No Logo" as does the majority of the population to realise there is NO difference between them. Can the brand names, shift production around to the existing plants and rebrand everything under Chevy, GMC or Cadillac/Hummer and merge the original models (and by original I don't mean a different looking tail light) and move forward from there.

Sorry for the long post but this whole situation is pissing me off royally since everyone can clearly see the root cause of the issue but are unfortunately powerless (at this point) to do anything about it. If the "big 3" do NOT address the root causes of their financial struggles the bailout will simply be soaked up, spent in haste resulting in them being in the same position they find themselves in today 5 - 10 years down the road.

Permafried-

umrdyldo

iTrader: (1)

^^^^^^^^^^ I don't disagree except for the fact that GM does in fact need a few brands.

Pontiac is not necessary, Saturn should become the Scion of GM and Cadillac should be the luxury.

Chevy needs to change its image a lot. They need to make people want to buy these cars. i really wish they would have a car that they would put a ton of build quality into so that they can get amazing reviews for once. They need to get reliability up and get people buying again.

As for wages, the Unions were great for protecting their members from wrong doing, but the the leaders abused their power and ran the unions into the ground.

SuperchargedSS

I dunno, I dont care if I get flamed, but there is a reason why the UAW went from 600 000 + members to 170 000 in the past couple decades ... Its not 1950 anymore, we dont need thugs involved with employment.

Unions suck, they worked for me once (You dont work for them btw - big misconception) and did f all for us except fill their pockets. They were just a pack of a-holes from my experience, out for themselves..

CamaroMuscleZ28

IMO Pontiac is more important than saturn. Pontiac has a legacy and history..... Saturn not so much. Besides affordable cars is suppose to be what Chevy is all about. GM needs to get smaller, maybe that involves intergrating Buick with Caddy, Saturn into Chevy and finding a viable purpose for Pontiac... maybe like a Lexus or Acura label. Sadly, they need new FWD platforms... thats what sells. Look at Camrys and Accords. Pontiac needs a TSX styled platform IMO. Chevy could use Scion like small car platforms. The Aveo and the Cobalt aren't enough. Maybe the Cruz will be....

Also, for all these tax payer dollars should come with a requirement. Bring more GM plants back to the US for US jobs. I'm tired of AC Delco parts coming from Mexico when I sold Toyota Parts that were from the US. Make American cars more American, help out the American worker in their time of need.

Come on, the Fusion is made in Mexico, not sure where the Impala is assembled. Most Camry's and Accords are made in the US!

side note... Does this mean I should fess up money for my stage 2 package in case they become in short supply?

pykie

Well this sucks!
GM's biggest mistake was making the HHR, like seriously how often do you see them driving around? never.
i see at dealer ships brand new 2007 HHR that still havnt sold yet. they are so ugly!
and the Chev Optra, Aveo, are a waste of time!
and what else they should look into is stop making the so many different style of trucks, Chev should have the Silverado, Colorado, and the Tahoe as the SUV. and GMC Should just stick with the Jimmy, Sierra, and Canyon.
but you know they have to have like 3 kinds of SUV's each, and like 10 different brands of Cars that are the same deal.
The new Malibu they brought back in 2007 is a nice car, and i think it sold decently well, same with the Impala. Personally i think GM should make, one Sport Compact, one Family luxury, one large truck, one small truck, and one SUV that would save them.
Same deal with Pontiac, Keep the G5 (witch ever sells the most between the G5, and G5/GT) G6, G8, and one SUV
Buick, not sure what to say about them, and cadillac, they should make one style and leave it at that, not the STS, CTS, and so on. and keep the XLR.
thats my 2 cents, but what we think wont effect GM at all, they just need to get out and have somone in every state and provence int he world collecting the feedback they need.

Force

QFT x 1,000,000,000

Saddened as I am by the SS and V lines being axed, anyone rational and reasonable knew it had to happen. GM is fighting to survive and begging for money from the government... Not that the government is right in asking so, but they want to see more fuel efficiency rather than performance. So it's bullshit, fine... But ignoring the government's wishes would simply leave GM insolvent and out of business.

I love performance cars and so does mostly everyone on this site. The problem is, in the general population we're the vast minority. SS and V model sales are insignificant in the grand scheme of things. While this might break our hearts, we'll just have to hope the re-assigned engineers can play a part in bringing GM back to a financially viable position; then we might see some of these cars return.

For us to bitch and moan about the performance division being axed is like the unions bitching about their benefits and salaries right now... What's better for them, continuing to make their ridiculous wages or making zero dollars when the company goes under? In the same vein, it's better for us to sit quietly and wait for GM to come back and make cars like these again than to see them not make cars anymore period.

SS4EVER

Right. I agree that Charger SRT-8 could probably take on a auto Camaro SS, but not a 6-spd Camaro SS esp if the driver can drive. I'm not saying Chargers aren't fast, because anything that can do 60 under 5 seconds stock and does the quarter in low 13's is fast by my books, but I was with my buddy in his 05 bone stock manual GTO and he raced a Charger SRT-8 and the Goat definitely has an edge.

It will be interesting though to see see the Chally SRT-8 vs the Camaro SS, that's for sure. The new Mustang GT500 though will be the king of those three. But with the performance offering through GM direct that will be offered with the Camaro that gap will be closed...