Breaking Point, need advise
Senior Member
Joined: 06-02-08
Posts: 2,985
Likes: 2
From: TN
It's a federal law.
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C))
This federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. The essence of the law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the vehicle maker's brand) unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. The law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. However, the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Further, consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided. The law states in relevant part:
“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name...” (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)).
Also watch this:
STEERING NOISE ON 06 COBALT - YouTube
Clearly shows what a POS design it is and that it's not Pedders fault.
Oh yeah and... GM sues over millions spent on steering repairs - USATODAY.com
GM sues over millions spent on steering repairs | MLive.com
Hmm, yeah definitely Pedders fault!! Damn them!!
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C))
This federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. The essence of the law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the vehicle maker's brand) unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. The law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. However, the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Further, consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided. The law states in relevant part:
“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name...” (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)).
Also watch this:
STEERING NOISE ON 06 COBALT - YouTube
Clearly shows what a POS design it is and that it's not Pedders fault.
Oh yeah and... GM sues over millions spent on steering repairs - USATODAY.com
GM sues over millions spent on steering repairs | MLive.com
Hmm, yeah definitely Pedders fault!! Damn them!!
I had the column rattle, replaced once and seemed to be fine afterwards. I had issues with the rear brakes that I couldn't figure out. Turns out the guys that bought my car found out that it looks like someone used an impact hammer to get some bolt in after they stripped it.
I ended up leaving the SS for my daily, but I love this community so I'm sticking around.
I ended up leaving the SS for my daily, but I love this community so I'm sticking around.
Member
Joined: 05-01-13
Posts: 348
Likes: 3
From: O FALLON, IL
"However, the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Further, consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided. The law states in relevant part"
^^
This is right in the "law" you just quoted. GM is stating that the springs CAUSED the failure.... therefore they are not covering it.... i dont get how you thought posting that law was going to somehow make you right..... because it simply states that if you use an aftermarket part... that DOESNT cause damage to the failed part in question... then they cant deny warranty.... but if they believe the aftermarket part CAUSED the failure... then they dont have to warranty it.
I totally understand your frustration... and i know it BLOWS. But man.... this is not an uncommon thing for a dealer to deny warranty on a steering/suspension item due to aftermarket suspension parts...
We ALLLLL knwo that these steering columns suck *******.... and so does GM..... so they are looking for any way they can to point the finger and find things to avoid covering these things.
^^
This is right in the "law" you just quoted. GM is stating that the springs CAUSED the failure.... therefore they are not covering it.... i dont get how you thought posting that law was going to somehow make you right..... because it simply states that if you use an aftermarket part... that DOESNT cause damage to the failed part in question... then they cant deny warranty.... but if they believe the aftermarket part CAUSED the failure... then they dont have to warranty it.
I totally understand your frustration... and i know it BLOWS. But man.... this is not an uncommon thing for a dealer to deny warranty on a steering/suspension item due to aftermarket suspension parts...
We ALLLLL knwo that these steering columns suck *******.... and so does GM..... so they are looking for any way they can to point the finger and find things to avoid covering these things.
Member
Joined: 05-01-13
Posts: 348
Likes: 3
From: O FALLON, IL
A good example of this for me.... since i work as a service advisor for a fleet management company.... is the new Ford F150's.... having the rear axles SNAP right at the rear differential..... at VERY low mileage. We were getting denied warranty on these for simply being driven OFFROAD?!?!?
SO a truck..... that is being driven like a truck.... can be denied warranty because of normal use as a truck? NOOO WAY!? That would never happen! But i assure you... it does. Luckily we get %95 ccovered when we go right through Ford Motor Co. Versus the dealer..... but still.... dealers are douchers in general.... and they will point blame wherever they can to avoid common warranty claims.
SO a truck..... that is being driven like a truck.... can be denied warranty because of normal use as a truck? NOOO WAY!? That would never happen! But i assure you... it does. Luckily we get %95 ccovered when we go right through Ford Motor Co. Versus the dealer..... but still.... dealers are douchers in general.... and they will point blame wherever they can to avoid common warranty claims.
GM sued the manufacturer of the steering system, JTEKT, for millions and appears to have settled out of court, according to the 2009 articles you linked to:
A little about JTEKT from their own website:
Why don't you contact JTEKT directly, describe your particular issue, and see if they offer up a solution. The quote above says "changes were made", so hopefully we have access to the "changed" unit. Whether it be replaced on GM's dime or our own, I doubt JTEKT would offer anything to a consumer directly, but maybe they could explain how we, the consumer, could get our hands on one. After all, we are the end user of the product, and it would be nice to know if the company actually cared about anything other than the almighty dollar.
JTEKT North America, Inc.
JTEKT North America Inc. & Technical Center
Administration of NA steering operations
47771 Halyard Drive, Plymouth, MI 48170, USA
Tel: 734-454-1500
Fax: 734-454-7059
Another option: let's fix it on our own. With the resources we have here and on other forums, us car enthusiast guys and gals know how to get **** done right. I go to j-body.org, badweatherbikers.com, coloradoK5.com, ls1tech.com and here all the time, and a few of the guys who frequent the boards have enough skills, experience, and machine shop resources to make really nice aftermarket products that are far superior to the mass produced junk the OEM's source to money-hungry, cost-cutting, manufacturers.
It appears, from the video you linked, that the plastic gear is wearing prematurely, and contributing to the noise issue. Is that gear serviceable? Has somebody on this board torn one down and removed the gear? If so, maybe we should make a steel gear replacement that won't wear out nearly as fast, if at all.
I'd personally be willing to assist in the production of a replacement gear. If somebody has access to a noisy steering column that has been removed from the vehicle (I'm sure you could grab a few from the local GM dealer!), and tear it down and remove the plastic gear and ship it to me, I could see what it would take to get a steel reproduction.
Just a thought.
"JTEKT contends the components all met the specifications and testing requirements that GM gave it," said Bob Haddad, a lawyer for the supplier. "The issues do not affect the operator's ability to control the vehicle. This is a noise issue."
Changes were made at GM's request, and JTEKT continues to provide steering assemblies, Haddad said Monday.
Changes were made at GM's request, and JTEKT continues to provide steering assemblies, Haddad said Monday.
JTEKT was formed in 2006 from the merger of two Japanese companies with long time presence in North America. The merger combined the steering and bearing expertise of Koyo Seiko (operating in North America since 1958) and the machine and driveline expertise of Toyoda Machine Works (operating in North America since 1977). The merger created a global company capable of providing a diverse array of technology driven, high quality products to the world's leading automakers.
JTEKT North America, Inc.
As one of the four major global regions, JTEKT North America is headquartered in Plymouth, Michigan with a sales/technical center in Michigan and six manufacturing locations across five states. The multiple locations are in line with JTEKT's philosophy of being close to customers to reduce lead time and improve communications.
Administration of NA steering operations
47771 Halyard Drive, Plymouth, MI 48170, USA
Tel: 734-454-1500
Fax: 734-454-7059
Another option: let's fix it on our own. With the resources we have here and on other forums, us car enthusiast guys and gals know how to get **** done right. I go to j-body.org, badweatherbikers.com, coloradoK5.com, ls1tech.com and here all the time, and a few of the guys who frequent the boards have enough skills, experience, and machine shop resources to make really nice aftermarket products that are far superior to the mass produced junk the OEM's source to money-hungry, cost-cutting, manufacturers.
It appears, from the video you linked, that the plastic gear is wearing prematurely, and contributing to the noise issue. Is that gear serviceable? Has somebody on this board torn one down and removed the gear? If so, maybe we should make a steel gear replacement that won't wear out nearly as fast, if at all.
I'd personally be willing to assist in the production of a replacement gear. If somebody has access to a noisy steering column that has been removed from the vehicle (I'm sure you could grab a few from the local GM dealer!), and tear it down and remove the plastic gear and ship it to me, I could see what it would take to get a steel reproduction.
Just a thought.
Senior Member
Joined: 09-12-12
Posts: 2,120
Likes: 3
From: delaware
I'd personally be willing to assist in the production of a replacement gear. If somebody has access to a noisy steering column that has been removed from the vehicle (I'm sure you could grab a few from the local GM dealer!), and tear it down and remove the plastic gear and ship it to me, I could see what it would take to get a steel reproduction.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
lol
Senior Member
Joined: 03-12-11
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 7
From: TEXAS
If they fixed the first car, they should fix the other. It shouldn't pick and choose based on how they feel that day. Just like in the justice system, there are things called precedents. If a judge makes a ruling on something and a similar case comes up with another judge, the same ruling has to be made based on the precedent. There is no excuse for a steering column wearing out on stock springs in less than 17,000 and then another steering column wearing out on Pedders in less than 10,000.
.
.
If they fixed the first car, they should fix the other. It shouldn't pick and choose based on how they feel that day. Just like in the justice system, there are things called precedents. If a judge makes a ruling on something and a similar case comes up with another judge, the same ruling has to be made based on the precedent. There is no excuse for a steering column wearing out on stock springs in less than 17,000 and then another steering column wearing out on Pedders in less than 10,000.
.
.
Last edited by LNFTX; Jun 13, 2013 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Maybe revisions were made and my 2nd column came from the old pile. I mean there has to be a reason the column on 05 LS with 60k miles on the column running koni yellows with sportlines hasn't worn out. It would be reasonable for them to replace it with a REVISED column instead of trying to blame it on a suspension component which clearly isn't an issue on my LS.
iOS 7 looks pretty bad ass, I'm excited for the final release, not bothering with betas this time around. Has anyone made a thread for it yet?
And I'm going to write a complaint to lemon law and GM. Probably won't get me anywhere but nor will anything else, clearly this is a steering column issue and that $100 part won't resolve it. Either GM will suck up their terrible component and replace it with a revised one or I'll just keep nagging like a little bitch about it. What other option is there? Drive a 3 year old vehicle with barely 30k on it with steering that feels worse than a go-kart and be happy about it? I wouldn't mind if this issue occurred on my 1995 Chevy Corsica, but that thing with 310k miles and trans slipping a bit STILL has a steering column that works without a problem.
And I'm going to write a complaint to lemon law and GM. Probably won't get me anywhere but nor will anything else, clearly this is a steering column issue and that $100 part won't resolve it. Either GM will suck up their terrible component and replace it with a revised one or I'll just keep nagging like a little bitch about it. What other option is there? Drive a 3 year old vehicle with barely 30k on it with steering that feels worse than a go-kart and be happy about it? I wouldn't mind if this issue occurred on my 1995 Chevy Corsica, but that thing with 310k miles and trans slipping a bit STILL has a steering column that works without a problem.
Senior Member
Joined: 06-02-08
Posts: 2,985
Likes: 2
From: TN
GM sued the manufacturer of the steering system, JTEKT, for millions and appears to have settled out of court, according to the 2009 articles you linked to:
A little about JTEKT from their own website:
Why don't you contact JTEKT directly, describe your particular issue, and see if they offer up a solution. The quote above says "changes were made", so hopefully we have access to the "changed" unit. Whether it be replaced on GM's dime or our own, I doubt JTEKT would offer anything to a consumer directly, but maybe they could explain how we, the consumer, could get our hands on one. After all, we are the end user of the product, and it would be nice to know if the company actually cared about anything other than the almighty dollar.
JTEKT North America, Inc.
JTEKT North America Inc. & Technical Center
Administration of NA steering operations
47771 Halyard Drive, Plymouth, MI 48170, USA
Tel: 734-454-1500
Fax: 734-454-7059
Another option: let's fix it on our own. With the resources we have here and on other forums, us car enthusiast guys and gals know how to get **** done right. I go to j-body.org, badweatherbikers.com, coloradoK5.com, ls1tech.com and here all the time, and a few of the guys who frequent the boards have enough skills, experience, and machine shop resources to make really nice aftermarket products that are far superior to the mass produced junk the OEM's source to money-hungry, cost-cutting, manufacturers.
It appears, from the video you linked, that the plastic gear is wearing prematurely, and contributing to the noise issue. Is that gear serviceable? Has somebody on this board torn one down and removed the gear? If so, maybe we should make a steel gear replacement that won't wear out nearly as fast, if at all.
I'd personally be willing to assist in the production of a replacement gear. If somebody has access to a noisy steering column that has been removed from the vehicle (I'm sure you could grab a few from the local GM dealer!), and tear it down and remove the plastic gear and ship it to me, I could see what it would take to get a steel reproduction.
Just a thought.
A little about JTEKT from their own website:
Why don't you contact JTEKT directly, describe your particular issue, and see if they offer up a solution. The quote above says "changes were made", so hopefully we have access to the "changed" unit. Whether it be replaced on GM's dime or our own, I doubt JTEKT would offer anything to a consumer directly, but maybe they could explain how we, the consumer, could get our hands on one. After all, we are the end user of the product, and it would be nice to know if the company actually cared about anything other than the almighty dollar.
JTEKT North America, Inc.
JTEKT North America Inc. & Technical Center
Administration of NA steering operations
47771 Halyard Drive, Plymouth, MI 48170, USA
Tel: 734-454-1500
Fax: 734-454-7059
Another option: let's fix it on our own. With the resources we have here and on other forums, us car enthusiast guys and gals know how to get **** done right. I go to j-body.org, badweatherbikers.com, coloradoK5.com, ls1tech.com and here all the time, and a few of the guys who frequent the boards have enough skills, experience, and machine shop resources to make really nice aftermarket products that are far superior to the mass produced junk the OEM's source to money-hungry, cost-cutting, manufacturers.
It appears, from the video you linked, that the plastic gear is wearing prematurely, and contributing to the noise issue. Is that gear serviceable? Has somebody on this board torn one down and removed the gear? If so, maybe we should make a steel gear replacement that won't wear out nearly as fast, if at all.
I'd personally be willing to assist in the production of a replacement gear. If somebody has access to a noisy steering column that has been removed from the vehicle (I'm sure you could grab a few from the local GM dealer!), and tear it down and remove the plastic gear and ship it to me, I could see what it would take to get a steel reproduction.
Just a thought.
my goodness; the OP is clearly confused, the concept of making new gears for the PS is beyond being reasonable.
If you track the car, go to the HHR brushless PS motor and repin your cars wiring harness. Otherwise get the car is proper mechanical shape. The motor is recalled so you can get that.
For the OP sell the car. You asked for advice the breaking point you said, and thats my .02 c. If you think you can successfully spend time and money to sue good luck. As far as I can see, put a fork in it.
If you track the car, go to the HHR brushless PS motor and repin your cars wiring harness. Otherwise get the car is proper mechanical shape. The motor is recalled so you can get that.
For the OP sell the car. You asked for advice the breaking point you said, and thats my .02 c. If you think you can successfully spend time and money to sue good luck. As far as I can see, put a fork in it.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-12-11
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 7
From: TEXAS
my goodness; the op is clearly confused, the concept of making new gears for the ps is beyond being reasonable.
If you track the car, go to the hhr brushless ps motor and repin your cars wiring harness. Otherwise get the car is proper mechanical shape. The motor is recalled so you can get that.
For the op sell the car. You asked for advice the breaking point you said, and thats my .02 c. If you think you can successfully spend time and money to sue good luck. As far as i can see, put a fork in it.
If you track the car, go to the hhr brushless ps motor and repin your cars wiring harness. Otherwise get the car is proper mechanical shape. The motor is recalled so you can get that.
For the op sell the car. You asked for advice the breaking point you said, and thats my .02 c. If you think you can successfully spend time and money to sue good luck. As far as i can see, put a fork in it.
my goodness; the OP is clearly confused, the concept of making new gears for the PS is beyond being reasonable.
If you track the car, go to the HHR brushless PS motor and repin your cars wiring harness. Otherwise get the car is proper mechanical shape. The motor is recalled so you can get that.
For the OP sell the car. You asked for advice the breaking point you said, and thats my .02 c. If you think you can successfully spend time and money to sue good luck. As far as I can see, put a fork in it.
If you track the car, go to the HHR brushless PS motor and repin your cars wiring harness. Otherwise get the car is proper mechanical shape. The motor is recalled so you can get that.
For the OP sell the car. You asked for advice the breaking point you said, and thats my .02 c. If you think you can successfully spend time and money to sue good luck. As far as I can see, put a fork in it.
I see a lot of people like the OP on this site. Instead of trying a work around for everything, just get it fixed already.
I'm not understanding on how I'm supposed to get it fixed. After all the research there is no aftermarket replacement column and I can't imagine anyone making this steering gear for me. I don't track the car. Powell if you know of a way to fix this issue without buying another crappy GM column that will break in a couple of months. Please share.
Senior Member
Joined: 09-12-12
Posts: 2,120
Likes: 3
From: delaware
I'm not understanding on how I'm supposed to get it fixed. After all the research there is no aftermarket replacement column and I can't imagine anyone making this steering gear for me. I don't track the car. Powell if you know of a way to fix this issue without buying another crappy GM column that will break in a couple of months. Please share.
I'm not understanding on how I'm supposed to get it fixed. After all the research there is no aftermarket replacement column and I can't imagine anyone making this steering gear for me. I don't track the car. Powell if you know of a way to fix this issue without buying another crappy GM column that will break in a couple of months. Please share.
I advised you the springs are likely collapsed and GM denied you warranty based on your mods. You blew me off on that.
I advised you that the TTR solid upper mount does not work with rotated mounts, and you blew me off on that.
I can most probably fix your car. I doubt that is going to happen but if you were to take my advice, you would do the following.
First of all I would review the GM TSB on suspension rattles and clunks, to bring myself up to speed on your car. I would then road test the car with you driving and me driving to understand clearly what the issues were.
I would then, subject to what I found do all or some of the following:
Remove the Pedders springs, the front lower control arms.
Install YYZ road springs, perhaps new strut mounts and bearings, and struts - depending on how damaged they may be. Probably install new front bump rubbers, locating them on the spring upper hats. Inspect and probably replace the lower control arm bushings minimum the trailing bushings. I would not install OEM bushings.
check and probably replace the end links with powergridinc.com links.
Check and verify the steering column and motor installation and the condition of the gears.
Check and probably install a new IM steering shaft.
Install a new top passenger side OEM mount.
Verify the bushings on the rotated mounts are not damaged and replace with better ones as needed.
Rebalance the total engine trans mount installation.
align the car.
road test.
Sorry I cannot spend any more time on this. Good luck with your car.
I appreciate your help and could see all those steps resolving my issues with future clunks and rattles but how would that resolve the faulty column issue. The RockAuto part is an intermediate steering shaft. That was replaced before the column and it didn't resolve the issue. The column itself had to be replaced because dealership figured out it was the plastic gear issue (same as the video above). How exactly could I fix that? All of your steps would help me in a long run but would not resolve that problem.
Not really, maybe someone will find a fix to this steering column issue. The RockAuto part isn't it and nor are springs bushings etc. If you don't like the thread you don't need to read or respond to it.
If other TCs don't have this issue often then wouldn't that mean there is something wrong with the build or current setup of your car? I'm not saying it's something you did, but there must be solution.
I agree, that's why I'm searching for alternative solution to this since GM won't warranty the part. I mean if they sued the supplier for $30 million dollars, it's obviously a known issue and isn't just happening to me.
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